FINISHED FILE

NETTHING 2023
AUSTRALIAN INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM
31 AUGUST 2023
10:00 A.M.
G20 IN INDIA AND DIGITAL INCLUSION: THE IMPACT OF SHUTDOWNS

	
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This text, document, or file is based on live transcription.  Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.  This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law.

>> Good morning and welcome to this session.  I'm glad that people who are physically present here and also people who are online.  This is the session of the fight of Internet shut downs and the role of multinational like G20.  I think India is going to host G20 soon as far as I understand.  And we have five including me speakers, we have Radhika, Usama, me, myself, Wai Myin, Asa speaking online.  So I will introduce the speakers one after another and we will get a little bit more about why we're presenting this session about the shut downs and the role of G20 or southwest G20.  Our first speaker is Radhika Jhalani, a counsel of SFLC in a legal organization that works to protect freedom in the digital world in India.  SFLC represents people's interest in the technology space through education and research policy in government and the time.  Can I invite Radhika to take over and introduce us to the subject and other issues that we are going to discuss today?
>> I can step in.  Thank you so much.  Really happy you were able to join us.  Thank you all for everybody present there in person and for joining online.  I'm sure for those of us online it's early in the morning, early in the night so really appreciate you taking the time.
I'll get us started.  The story of Internet shut downs in Asia violation of rights continuing impunity and damaging effects on democracy as well as employment and the economy.
They often throw a curtain over the ground realities and regions going through conflict in a way that has ‑‑ reporting and also one plagued with dichotomies.  Greater inclusion are on the rise but so are efforts to block the access to social media platforms.  The scale of impacted communities in Asia the rise of the tech sector and the considerable user basis for online platforms as well as government provided online services add it all with the shut downs that deprive the people of the availability to exercise their rights and available services.  As Asian countries prepare to take the center stage at various international forums like the G20 and other summits which as Mr. Far presented this is a recommendation that must be made.  To shed light on this issue we have experts from India, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Pakistan where access is often blocked.  I'll quickly introduce the other speakers.  Usama is director of Bolo Bhi, working on advocacy policy and research in the areas of gender rights, Internet access, digital security in Pakistan.  From Faruq at Article 19 with over two decades in international development, journalism, communication and other things.
Wai Myint access now, international organization working to extend rights in free speech globally.  Has been instrumental in rights in Myanmar and finally I'm your moderator.  Namrata.  Again we'll have one hour in all.  We will try to reserve time towards the end for questions from the audience.  So please feel free to note them as you think of them.
Radhika I'd perhaps like to start with you.  I'm just going to fix my view so I can see you on my screen.
And while do I that, Faruq, can you hear me there.
>> Yes, I can hear you.
>> Faruq:  What did you ask me?
>> Narrata:  Is my audio clear there.
>> Yes, very clear.
>> Namrata emerging technologist seem to be at the heart of the G20 and also been ranked No. 1 on digital globally and yet it has remained the country with the highest number of shut downs for five years in a row.  How can one understand these impulses to digitize public services on one hand and use shut downs to stop people's access to Internet services on the other hand.
>> Radhika:  Thank you for joining this early, this late at night.  I like to think of shut downs as knee‑jerk reactions, right?  It's fight against disinformation.  The parts that India has chosen ‑‑ sorry.  Examinations for example, Internet shut downs are way to other things, right?  The way of ‑‑ I think it's easy, B, I don't think people really understand the impact the authorities don't really understand the impact of shut downs what they do.  Then as you said there are a lot of economies ‑‑ you know, you would see these street pedalers thinking ‑‑ your care payments would be an equivalent of PayPal payments, you know, that you just ‑‑ none of us especially up to the demonetization exercise have keep a lot of cash on us, but shut downs and unfortunately the only argument that the government seemed to understand, this is the net loss that's when we shut down the Internet.  That's something they might be able to understand.  The unfortunate part is that there are no comparative studies.  Internet shut downs are also a recent phenomena.  If you see and according to ‑‑ and other 758 shut downs in India since 2012.  Right now we are on 66 shut downs in 2023 itself.  The number is a lot.  Categorically located you'll understand that, you know, in some part of India, there is one Internet shut down.  The numbers are scary but also our government doesn't even maintain an initial record of shut downs and that has been answered in the parliament multiple times as a record of the losses.  There's no study, no investment in ‑‑ understand what Internet shut downs.  No sort of way to figure out alternator.  Everybody is using the hate speech.  I understand that the country is very, you know, diverse and there are always ‑‑ but Internet shut downs are definitely not the way including selective adding of Internet which government is not ‑‑
Over to you, Namrata.
If I could come to you next, Bangladesh has also made headlines with startling Internet access sometimes to undermine protests and rallies, sometimes in other context.  This conclusion between what the government authorities are trying to teach and telecom service providers who they chalk it up to infrastructure lapses, it also undermines democracy as a whole what local narratives are trying to be suppress here and is there any way that the impact of shut down is made worse by existing what have been called Draconian legislations like the digital services Act?
>> Faruq:  Thank you.  Thank you for giving me this opportunity and in Bangladesh we are also noticing what happened in cashmere when the config started and then the shut down happened and in Bangladesh the shut down happened with refugees that took shelter from Myanmar in Bangladesh but Bangladesh government because this is kind of the ‑‑ of this current government is very in question and though Bangladesh is not a member ‑‑ but the Bangladesh hopefully going to Delhi to attend G20 this year.  Bangladesh government is in power for 15 years and they hope to continue for that.  Yeah, this government is for 15 years and they want to contest again next election which is coming in January and they want if they could take the whole culture of the online question but the Internet platforms owners are not listening to Bangladesh government and Bangladesh government is trying to create an atmosphere of self censorship and fear.  That's why they created digital security act just before the last election and in 2018.  Since then we along with other actors are protest being this and after long time the government has agreed to do some reform of this law and change the name of this one called digital security act, they will call it cyber security act.  But this act is not for citizen.  This is actually to ensure the ‑‑ what do you call absolute power of the current government to control people and create self censorship and so that nobody says anything in this end of this current government.  But what we are protesting is that this law has to be for the citizen's benefit in that sense and we want that even the government is changing the name of this law and changing some of the punishment in some ways.  We are not satisfied with that.  Our demand is that since 2018 when the law came and up to now at least two people are killed the digital security act many people are in the jail without any trial and many people had to leave the country and go abroad.  So we want an independent judicial inquiry of misuse of this law since 2018 up to the change now which we are not happy and we want the government to publish a kind of white paper and bring those people who are involved with misuse of this law and bring them to justice.  That's what we're doing in Bangladesh.  Thank you.
>> Namrata:  Thank you so much.  Wai Phyo, are you here.
>> Yes.
>> So in Myanmar there has been known to regularly employ Internet shut downs over the past two years.  In fact Myanmar has been witnessing the longest on‑going Internet shut down which exceeded 540 days in March 2023 but correct me if I'm getting that wrong and all 330 townships across the country have been subjected to shut downs at least once in 2022 what does Internet access mean for the people of Myanmar.
>> Wai Phyo:  Thank you so much.  Just to give you a bit of background.  I mean, many of you are ‑‑ this being like almost two and a half years now the military trying to control the whole nation.  But the thing is like especially on the shut down issue, the coup what we have experienced in Myanmar is the first e‑mail we did is like a shutting down Internet.  This is like a nationwide Internet shut down including as well the television channel and then what we have been seeing at least like at last two and a half years is repeated violations by the military and especially in terms of like at trying to restrict people and trying to control, you know, people sharing information.  The last two and a half years we have seen about various types of Internet shut downs and also many times of the Internet shut down as well.  For example, what we have seen about nationwide Internet shut down, we have seen like even like base shut down we have seen regional focus Internet shut downs and also in addition to that what we have seen about it is also IP based, Internet shut down thousands of Web site also has been already, you know, like banned by the military including messaging platforms, social media platform, Facebook, what's app, you know, people inside the country cannot use them without using the PPN et cetera.  So those are kind of like the types of Internet shut down and then and also what we have seen about it is military also did it several policy Amendments, you know, policy changes, policy reform to be able to restrict, you know, people effects to Internet systematically.  For example there was a pushing out like Simcot mandatory registration and also like us a threatening to the use of the VPNs in Mayan Narrata and people already got arrested, you know, for heavy VPN installed in their phone, electronic devices.  Those the ways military had been trying to restrict people set to the Internet.  What we have seen recently is in addition to all those kinds of like measures what we have seen about it military has been using jamming devices, you know, to be able to shut down not necessarily just the Internet assess, they are also basically shutting down, you know, like also including devices that's including phone calls and also like walkie talkies radios as well.  They basically shut it down all the communication devices.  People on the ground can use.  So that is also ‑‑ we have seen tons of evidence the military used the jambers every time, you know, like at the ‑‑ do these S tripes, the raids on the village, those are also what we have seen on the ground.  A bit of a current ground on the Internet shut down.  What we look about the figures, so currently right now over like 50 plus townships next month they are going to two years no Internet at all.  Only in some area they got 2Gs but not all the other.  So all townships those are mainly in sin state ‑‑ so pretty much those are the areas current conflicts have been going on between these like resistant forces and ultimately the military.  So right now the people on these townships, you know what they are experiencing about it is they don't really have any information not necessarily just about these resistant movements.  They are also not really getting any information about like all these military operations et cetera.  So just to give answers to your question, you know, what Internet shut down, what Internet assess means for the people in Myanmar.  Currently right now the situation for the people in Myanmar, Internet access is pretty much death or life situation because like many people, many villages on the ground they're relying on these like messages, share each other about this military operation in the region in their villages.  So military shutting down all these communications, access communication channels and by using even the jambers and different orders and et cetera, people lost these kinds of messages.  Didn't get these kinds of messages and events so that's why they don't really know about this military operation in their village, military entering into their village and they don't really know how to find their safe route, you know, so they can flee like a conflict area.  Many people got killed.  Like kind of ‑‑ what we have seen even about it a shut down.  During this operation period, et cetera.  So that's also ‑‑ but in other part like for example pretty much the whole resistant movement relying on these digital tools, devices and et cetera were the mobilizing to the ‑‑ also even Zoom has been basically resistant leader to be able to meet and discuss, et cetera.  So those are also I will say about it like in many area especially people, especially the groups you know who are in these current conflict area they are essential to different tools, different communication has been restricted because of the ‑‑ a bit of like a broader general feature.
Thank you so much.
>> Namrata:  Thank you so much.  You brought up different ways in which access is blocked and I think that is also kind of name to the next question that I have for Radhika.
Exploring the idea of selective banning in India, the telecom regulatory has issued a consultation paper on whether that is a less intrusive measure that is to say shutting down the entire Internet they have suggested shutting down specific platforms that could quote/unquote be used for terrorism purposes and other unlawful reasons.  Do you think this is legitimate or a shut down by another name.  That's the first leg of my question.  And the second in selecting very specific ways with respect to blocking the Internet, how does it affect the digital divide?  Often mobile Internet is banned even the broadband is available but that means most people in perhaps rural areas that mostly rely on mobile Internet stay in the dark so on and so forth on gender and economic status and so many other factors.  Just on selective banning and digital divide, separate or connected as you like.
>> Radhika:  So I think the first case of selective banning is what we saw (Away from microphone).  I think this is ‑‑ I mean ‑‑ what they did there was because there were allegations that were going on in court, they said what they're going to do is give you 2G ‑‑ so think of this way is there a (Away from microphone) at sites that is done for example using a bank Web site.  Bank Web site is listed but the slogan is there.
Sites now designed to rural 4G.
Very hard thing to do.
This was majorly what we saw in 2021 ‑‑ I think now 120 days of Internet shut down.  According to India's rule ‑‑ cannot be ‑‑ all people want to authorities have lifted the shut down but they've only said that shut down is for people who use broad ban Internet and there are a hundred conditions that are attached.  The problem is out of 100 conditions most people they have to log in, log out, they can't change their passwords.  You know, they can be price ‑‑ et cetera, et cetera.  It's also interesting to understand that India is according to the theory of the 9697 percent of Internet users because mobile cheaper.  Only two to 3 percent of people have access to broad banned.  If you're shutting down and saying by only shutting down mobile Internet services you're seeing that 97 percent of people will not ‑‑ then there is a cost something we saw during the farmers protest in India.  Not verified.  There's no ‑‑ putting in the Internet you don't have to have ‑‑ which means that between the protest area there is ‑‑ very very limited.  All no Internet access.
Last question ‑‑ they said that ‑‑ so again I'm sure there will be studies to prove this but number of ‑‑ so there are things like these bookmark Instagram, you know, people do business over what's app.  There are so many technology opinions.  So just shutting down Internet selectively.  There is a way around it by using VPN.  B, it also comes with its own sets of harms.  So selective banning is definitely not the way forward.  Internet shut down are bad, whether they're selective or whether they're blanket, they are bad.  Even if you can't even cut someone's access to Facebook, it's as simple as that you have to find other ways to control.  I think this narrative that shutting down Internet or you know implementing what's app, you know, is the way to control that is also ‑‑ also a lot of counter speech that happens on these platforms.  Beginning to debunk several details investing more in fact checking should be the one ‑‑ should be the way to go not selectively ban any kind of Internet service.
>> Namrata:  Thank you so much, Radhika?  I don't think Usama has been able to join just yet.
Mr. Faruk come back to you.  Could you tell us how Internet shut downs disproportionately affect groups within society such as human rights defenders and in the case of Bangladesh there have been instances of refugees have been particularly affected.  That's the first name of the question and the second given that Bangladesh will also soon be having elections, are there ‑‑ around election that is shut downs could pose and is there any kind of direction that you would have on how that should be addressed.
>> Thank you very much and yes I just mentioned there is a kind of control over the access to Internet and radio and telephone for the refugees who are there from Myanmar.  It's there, strong and it's there but also the government tries to control all kind of different voices, of the government but the problem is that all the misinformation, hate speech, et cetera, are spread over the Internet by not public main leads by the political leaders who are in power because they are the one who are easily can criticize the opposition parties and say anything.  Only for people who are talking against them.  But also as we discuss about digital divide in rural areas the government can easily control the speed of the telephone connections, Internet connections and et cetera.  So however they think not in a good shape that the government they use that all the time.  And the election is the one thing that the government is really worried and in last time, last two elections actually is because they feel the ballot boxes in the middle of the night and that's create add big criticism and if the government had the same intention again this year, definitely go for Internet shut down and content moderation and et cetera so that is a danger that Bangladesh is about to face.
Not in a very good shape and not very far from here and government also tries to have the election during the Christmas because all the diplomats leave the country for Christmas so that they do not want the diplomats to see what they're doing with the election so that's some of the tricks they are trying to play but from countries they are not very happy about that so they're trying to change the dates.  Election process and all position parties, civic space is being criticized by all the opinion, government and US Government, not Indian government by the way.
Thank you.
>> Namrata:  On that last point actually if I could ask a follow‑up.  Since we're discussing international impact also and the view that other countries have held on this issue, we have seen various other issues such as the data protection law and regulate platforms it appears that south Asian countries are borrowing a lot from each other.
For example within the data protection laws we've seen Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, India, all of them pushing for a certain kind of data localization, even if it is later than next.  So in that context do you think with respect to Internet shut downs south Asian countries are drawing a kind of legitimacy and perhaps inspiration in a negative way from India which has imposed so many shut downs over the last five years leading the count on track to do it for the sixth year in a row. 
>> Faruq:  I agree with that.  Bangladesh follows lots of understood I can't know steps and actually the digital security act has been copied from India as well whatever was possible and the OTT control act has come to Bangladesh it's not law but they will do that.  Then data protection law that's ‑‑ we follow the Indian law that way in a lot.  But the problem is data protection is actually not protecting data.  Because Bangladesh does not have the capacity to keep the data of the citizens secure because we are sending all the datas outside Bangladesh.  And the problem is that there was a hacking happening in Bangladesh all the time and in a new information about hacking has come out and there is a big hacking of people's identity and et cetera and also Bangladesh bank was robbed online already and it has not been, what do you call, properly investigated because people say that some people who are close to power are involved with this robbery from the central bank.  So, yes, we follow some of the Indian ways but also we do not try to protect the data and safety and security of citizen online which is very important for a country like Bangladesh which is weak and does not have infrastructure.
Thanks.
>> Thank you.
Mentioned in the introduction that Internet shut downs are also used to shape views in conflict regions and I think Myanmar is among the foremost examples of this within Asia.  I you also spoke about how 50 regions within Myanmar have been under Internet shut down for two, two and a half years straight now.  Could you tell us a little more about the ground realities that the international community is not seeing the impact of shut downs in these regions that is not visible and also if ‑‑ and I'm not sure there is an answer to this but if there is, other regions that have managed to regain access after being under shut down, are there any specific backgrounds there?  Are there ways in which the international community has perhaps helped move the needle?  Of course, the data was very different in a democracy verses in ' region like Myanmar.  But are there any trends or patterns on the rejoins that now have access and did not earlier and again the realities that are not visible to us because of this information blockade?
>> Thank you, Namrata.  Yes, the Internet shut downs in Myanmar like all these 50 plus townships are quite prolonged.  This is over two years time.  No Internet at all.  So you can imagine like the impacts you know on the ground quite severe in different ways.  So what we have been seeing about especially like ‑‑ also these the military has been committing various atrocities on the ground, including like S5s, you know, bombings on the villages, et cetera.  So the obvious challenges has been experience including us and also other actors like media and et cetera to be able to understand, you know, what is going on on the ground and et cetera.  Like for example, like last year even to be able to Internet shut down and et cetera it is also quite challenging for us, you know, to be able to from outside.  So that is one reason.  But the other than is like some media for example, like, borrowing countries for example, for example Naga, administrative zone area this is the border with India Naga, western part of Myanmar.  So ADR they don't have Internet much 2021.  So currently right now the only relying on the Internet some are like only in the very like remote like ‑‑ from India.  So this area what we have been hearing about it because since the very beginning of the coup, you know, they faced the international shut down et cetera.  They don't really know what is going on if the rest of the country.  So, bigger picture of this revolution, lying resistance, different resistance, movement, et cetera.  So the information people, information they receive is only flu the channels provided by the military.  Pretty much a misinformation.  Resistant force, all these misinformation, disinformation.  That is one thing we kind of like hearing but the thing is like we still need to understand better, you know, what have these kinds of like how this misinformation, disinformation and propaganda of the military have impacted, you know, people in the Naga views on the general, you know, that is also one thing.  The other one I would say about for example recent like ‑‑ so recent cyclone, you know, situation.  So hugely cyclone A DS which has been Internet shut down, that's including Raki and Sakai region.  So what we have been seen about it people on the ground time to time tell us when they have the Internet or when they go to the white they get the Internet.  So they are explaining about their situation on the ground, you know, assess to like support kind of like issues around on this like medical support and like emergency need and et cetera.  So those information it is really difficult, you know, to find the local media, international media et cetera.  And then also we see about it basically restrict, you know, like additional body like UN and others to be able to enter into this regions and to be able to reach these assistants, reach the people on the ground and et cetera.  That is also currently like major challenge every time we got a chance to talk with them these stories we have been sharing a lot as well.  The other one I'd like to mention is particularly on the education sector.  Is like majority of the students, a public school students and also majority of the public school teachers are against the public school under the control of the military.  So compared to the data before the code and then like if the data late 2022, there are over 60 percent of the students in the basic educations are not going back to the public ‑‑
>> What are the challenges for special economic in Asia?  Digital economic in Asia has been significantly grown and ‑‑
>> Namrata:  I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. ‑‑ can I request that you put in your question in chat?  I'll definitely come to you in the question.  I just want to make sure that you have a chance to complete her point and we'll definitely take that.
Thank you so much.
>> Wai Phyo:  Sorry just to continue, particularly like education, right, I was saying about 60 percent of these students in the basic level and also 70 percent university level student are not going back to the public school.  This is the fourth executive clear from the COVID situation.  So because of the ‑‑ if it is ‑‑ I'm not really saying any comments or the position like public school and et cetera, but like if we have the Internet access, you know, like these students can try you know online education, online different education initiatives and et cetera, but right now this area, especially chin's and that current state prolonged Internet shut down.  Students on the ground are also able not to find it I would say majority of student, 60 to 70 percents from the kindergarten level to the university level.  So that's just like Internet shut down really restricting you know kids assess to the education so ‑‑ last question.  Particularly like for example ‑‑ and then chin state, they also experience prolonged Internet shut down after the end of the government.  That was also during the time the conflicts like between ‑‑ and then like military and et cetera.  At that time like currently right now what he have been saying about a different members, saying about they cannot really understand what is going on.  The whole kind of bigger picture of the conflicts because of the restricted access to the information.  So there was like people on the ground, they start realizing how serious it is and also like manipulation campaign of the military et cetera, this can be an excuse from the government but somehow that's also sort of like I would say a bit of a reflection learning lesson how basically restrict and also how people take into like a different propaganda of the military et cetera.  So I would say about this is kind of like an evidence, you know, this is the lessons, you know, we can take on, you know, how Internet assess and Internet shut down basically can make it kind of like a different, you know, and people understand being serious like from the conflict situations in Myanmar.  So, yeah, those are ‑‑ maybe I will stop here right now.
>> Namrata:  Thank you so much.  Maybe before I go to the third question we could take a couple of questions.  There is one in the chat for Radhika from Pradip.  And I know there was one more from Vikram.  But if you are please feel free to ask the after ‑‑ Radi is question from Pradip.
>> Thanks, Pardip for the question.  I think that Internet shut downs normally restrict people's right to information.  They also prevent political participation especially for minority communities and women, right?  A as a woman I think you would find it hard we would go out to a protest if there's a shut down.  Generally signifies there's something that's going on, right.  And in countries like ours where social, you know, secure there are already existing securities who would not step out but I do think Internet shut downs does deprive communities, minority and otherwise from the right to information as we saw in the case of Myanmar and how do we reduce a little Internet that was back.
>> Namrata:  Thank you, Radhika.  Bikram, are you here?
All right, perhaps not in which case I'll keep us moving.
Just if you could turn the discussion to employ a team to a forward looking lens in terms of changes that are possible to see opportunities that exist and how a positive change can be brought about in terms of the frequency and Internet shut down as a measure.  Raddika maybe to you and then, the shut down which in many ways is still on‑going, it sharply put into light how such bans have processes and turns agents into black boxes how can these strains of impunity around shut downs be changed by various stakeholders, be it the public international spaces.
>> So I would like to pass it back I don't know Line.  Please, Saman a., Mohammad, Anya, if you can please wrap up up, just a minute each.  Thank you.
Influence and pressure to us the politicians.
Thank you.
>> Here are some of the final thoughts.  I think we talked about a lot of issues ranging.
We should be willing to share amongst all the countries because that impacts everyone.  I hope in those areas with sharing knowledge with the countries who are yet to catch up an a lot of this technological front.
>> This is one area where action of one country is not enough to tackle it.  Also on the digital space where there are dark Web, we as the entire human race need to come together to come up with these are the common basic things that we will do to support each other.
And these are the things I feel like youth which makes up a huge chunk, especially in the developing nations, if you step in the political space, then serious changes will be possible.  And it's not just going to be about being heard but also being right there to implement your ideas.
Thank you.
>> Thank you, honorable.  I'll just pass it out to Ananya.
>> Ananya:  Thank you very much.  I think I just want to add that I personally do not encourage the idea that you have to be a politician all the time to be heard because that defeats the idea of being a normal citizen.  You can still make an impact while being a normal citizen and I would always encourage that and hence that gives the space to you to actually be more into advocacy and activism.  So like you have seen in my case I started an online publication.  I worked for a council.  You can also will that.  There are situations when we are not heard.  I don't deny that.  But then there will be situations where we will be heard if we are persistent enough.  That could be about climate change.  That could be about Internet governance but if you keep demanding something, if you show passion, if you gather a lot of people to agree with you to also show that there are so many who share this concern, the government will have to listen.  Because at the end of the day they will have to come to you for ‑‑ asking for votes.  So don't worry, they will listen to you.
So all the very best and thank you very much.
>> Moderator:  Thank you, Ananya.
>> Moderator:  Creating forms and facilitating open dialogue between young people and decision making, I think that's the main thing.  Communication is the key.  So we need both the parties to hear each other out to come to a conclusion.
Advocating for digital inclusion policies that breach the digital tribe, leaving no one behind.  And lastly, effort between government, private sectors and civil society that can come and facilitate a sustainable solution.
Thank you.
>> Moderator:  Thank you.  We're right on time.  Five minutes past.
So I guess just to wrap up.  Some final thoughts from our law makers and our policymakers.  Please, they want us to pursue the career in being a politician.  Fast check yourself.  Another point I've heard is persistence.  Our law makers that are fighting the good fight up there.  So be persistent.
From our youths, more inclusive as we heard from IGF global youth, please allow our private sector to be amongst your discussions of these policies and regulations.  And finally, I want everybody to ‑‑ I'll give the three cheers.  So first cheer for our online speakers.  Hip hip.
>> Audience:  Hooray.
>> Oh, come on.  One more.
>> Hooray.
>> A cheer for our panelists.
Hip hip.
>> Audience:  Hooray.
>> Moderator:  Nobody's going to lunch unless I hear louder.
>> Hooray.
>> And one for myself.
Hip hip.
>> Hooray.
>> Thank you very much for being part of the discussion.  I hope you have a good day.
>> A cold coffee for everyone.  Bye.  Thank you.  Bye.

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