FINISHED FILE

ASIA-PACIFIC REGIONAL INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM
BRISBANE 2023

AUGUST 31, 2023
CONNECTING COMMUNITIES: COMMUNITY RADIO FOR CONNECTIVITY, INCLUSION, DIGITAL RIGHTS, AND FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION 
11:30 AM AEST

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>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you everyone.  Thank you for everyone that is joining the session.  It is an early morning in India and sunny morning everywhere else.  Thank you everyone for joining. 
(background chatter)
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: As we know, the session topic is about Connecting Communities: Community Radio for Connectivity, Inclusion, Digital Rights, and Freedom of Expression and it is being put in place and how communicate radios are bringing Connectivity, Inclusion, Digital Rights, and Freedom of Expression.  It is to understand how those radio stations are exercising rights of freedom of expression and digital rights not from one in particular, but also from the last few decades.  Having said that point, it is that community radio stations in India specifically and south Asian countries.  They have played a major role during pandemic while providing access to information, social and economic justice rights, and bringing the voices of lower and marginalized communities for what they have been going through during the time of pandemic they have been the voices and medium and tools for it.  However, one of the challenges that we have in radio stations that connectivity is a challenge that is as it is evident that connectivity and access to Internet is becoming more and more popular in the lives of us.  It is also becomes important for people, those that don't have Internet connectivity.  That is where this sessions about.  How it can be promised and done that we're community radio stations and community networks can join hand to hand together for those kind of rules and bring more social and economic justice rights.  
That's the context of the session.  Yet challenge still lies in a way a number of items pending that why this session ‑‑ what exactly we should do to bring more existing ‑‑ how to utilize the existing infrastructure.  I want to introduce my speakers. 
	Jane Coffin, she brings a lot of experience in connecting with the area.  She has worked with several international organizations and those fighting for the we have a number of rural broadband organizations.  Those working with broadband.  She has worked with ISOC, Connect Humanity and many other known organizations.  
I would like to tell Jane she can introduce herself more and tell why decentralization of the network is important through the stations and going forward why it is for required that CR stations and community networks needs to marry themselves to amplify the diverse voices and perspectives?  Jane, over to you.  
>> Jane Coffin: Thank you, Ritu Srivastava.  It is exciting to join you at APrIGF.  Very exciting.  As Ritu said, I work at various organizations, some Governmental, some Private Sector and some nonprofit, with a focus always on connectivity and Internet infrastructure.  Policies and regulations to help with that Internet infrastructure and to improve Governance of that infrastructure and to keep it independent and bottom‑up, hopefully.  As much as you can.  Most recently I was working with Internet Society for 10 years and a group called Connect Humanity.  That was to promote Internet structure and Governance as I said before and other related issues and also financing of all of the networks.  So they're more independent.  As Ritu Srivastava indicated the decentralization of networks is part of the premise that goes way back with the interwebs.  Paul baron and others are given a lot of credit for that.  But it came about through the academic communities as well.  And it became quite frankly, something people saw as strategic and security related issue as well, with respect to decentralization.  You don't want single points of failure.  You don't want one hub and spoke network.  That doesn't work.  We know Internet network of networks has been so successful.  It is also a way to keep growing a more sort of neural‑like network.  Because they're organic in many areas and some are of course well planned.  But it means again not single points of failure.  That you don't have one place where people can take out your network.  That would be a bad thing.  Means more resiliency and redundancy in the network of networks.  With not only community networks but community radio.  You certainly can have a more both resilient and redundant infrastructure.  But one that is more decentralized and reflects the communities they're from and also reflective of different practices you might want to employ from a technological perspective.  Not all of the networks are the same.  I think we all know that.  Community radio often is shortwave.  Which is HAM operators might otherwise be known.  A group called the international radio relay league.  I'm trying to remember.  An observer to the World Radio Conferences.  One of the only organizations of that nature that is an observer and actually sits in those meetings wherever they may be with the ITU for the World Radio Conferences.  
It is important to note that shortwave is extremely well respected along with of course other technology and use of spectrum.  About it is incredibly well respected at the table with spectrum assignments.  
Decentralization in community radio is obvious.  You are coming from the community out.  You are obviously trying to figure out how to backhaul and or work with other networks that can receive your signals or other users out there. 
So they're often used in times of disaster assistance as well.  When there are natural disasters or manmade.  You will often find that during the pandemic, of course, too, which woke a lot of people up to why connectivity isn't a vertical enabler it is horizontal across many different practices and Sectors. 
When I say practices and Sectors, I mean everything from education to business to social to other.  
And Ritu Srivastava your other point about why this marriage of community radio and networks is required to amplify diverse voices and perspectives, I think for every community network that we know of and every community radio station, every community in and of itself is extremely different and diverse.  Different technical practices that you might use that are the same, but every network is going to be a little bit different.  So that does also help with that diffusion and different characterization of those networks themselves.  From a diverse perspective of voices.  
If the technology is there and people can use it, it can be taken up across the world.  This is one of the most important things I think about making technology easy to understand and or showing people that they can put a community radio network together and they can put a community network together. 
This is why so many organizations that I have worked with and others out there are keen to make sure they have case studies.  Or that they're doing capacity building exercises with communities, listening to the communities and hearing how those communities want to put their networks together and or what they want to do with them.  
I think Sarbani Belur will mention different networks she's worked with.  I won't go into how diverse they can be.  It is very important to recognize that we have to make it easier for people to understand why community networks and community radio could offer them both redundancy, resiliency, diversification and ability to have different voices.  I will stop there Ritu Srivastava. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you.  Jane.  It is an important point that you mention.  Every community network or community radio has a different perspective, different models. 
I will come to you again when we will be talking about more technicalities about it and come back to you.  Thank you so much.  
I bring on Babu Ram Aryal for bringing voices at radio stations in Nepal are exercising the rights of freedom of expression.  What kind of thing they're doing.  It is being prevalent that Nepal is a country where they have a large number of community radio stations.  It is also the thing that one of the Nepal also have one of the barriers in community network.  What they have done in bringing freedom of expression together along with community radio and community network together.  Babu Ram Aryal is ‑‑ I will introduce also him, that Babu Ram Aryal is a founder and CEO for delta in Kathmandu with over two decades of insurance in the Radio Sector and intellectual properties and foreign investments.  Also a Vice‑Chair for the multistakeholder Committee of Asia‑Pacific regional IGF and Nepal IGF.  And member of ICANN and ITU and young fellow.  I will call Babu Ram Aryal for sharing experiences from the Nepal and how Nepal has been exercising these two things together.  Babu Ram Aryal?  
>> Babu Ram Aryal: Thank you, it is my pleasure to be in APrIGF, this very significant session.  I was asked.  And now I'm with the Internet Governance.  It is that I'm engaged in community communications and practice previously and practicing law in Nepal specifically income sensitive. 
As Ritu Srivastava said, in Nepal there are many that are focused on explicit.  And the radio connection (?) is the oldest in the South Asia if I am not wrong.  And this has been contributing significantly in democratic process and democratizing of the society in Nepal. 
Especially a bit different character from Nepalese context, in community radio.  Community radio, basically they don't focus on news.  They're in some port of the countries like in South Asia.  They don't allow you to disseminate news bulletins through the assistance.  The community radio stations.  In Nepal from very beginning, news were really significant content for community radio. 
And there was another case when previous regulations stopped disseminating news bulletins through community radio or F.M. stations, especially.  Saying F.M. stations are only for local issues.  And news are not the content.  Civil court upheld the practice and said any restriction on news dissemination to any community radio stations are violation of rights of the persons that was guaranteed by the constitution of Nepal.  
So from that perspective community radio stations from Nepal have significant milestone on disseminating news, bringing local news to national and local international now.  I say national and international, from on air, now, we have entered into online and now hybrid model of community radio broadcasting has started vis‑à‑vis through frequency of radios and into Internet.  I mean digital platforms. 
This is a brief background of community radio stations in Nepal.  How they have been focusing on and contributing on expression in Nepal. 
An important part of community radio we experience in Nepal is promoting local content, local issue.  As I report, we have more than 50 community radio stations and similar number of other private‑run F.M. stations.  Again, they're contributing at local levels.  So they have contributed significantly bringing local issues into the mainstream, bringing local enterprise, local community issues, local culture into the economic platforms.  And when this Internet significantly came into the existence, and contributing to all the Sectors, now there are certain issues that community radio stations are facing. 
Previously they were considered primary channel for information.  Now because of the Internet platform, social media platforms, people are slowly deviating from community radio station to Internet content.  In this, there are two major issues faced by community radio.  One is now audience are diverse.  And how to make this community radio contribution to be more interactive with the audience and another is now it has become significant challenge from infrastructure perspective.  Though Internet is expanded largely but it is still Nepal has because of geographical challenge, it has very complex Internet facilities.  Jane, obviously she knows certain aspect of radio issues in Nepal.  In referring this still radio systems, people are missing broadband connectivity as one of major challenge. 
So while bringing from on air to online.  It is D to bring the resource or connectivity.  Meaningful connectivity when we see the reports of the regulators, they have accessibility there, but accessibility are from mobile, various levels.  But not as part of the meaningful accessibility.  So some of the issues on connectivity.  And another issue is that now when moving from on air to moving to online and going on hybrid model, there are some legal issues previously not related with F.M. stations. 
Now, when they moved into online platform as well, now various legal issues like defamation and other kind of issues are now part of this content regulation, take down issues and challenging political issues, and other bad actors of societies are also significant challenge of safety of journalists when bringing small town issue to larger community through online.  Now it has begun another level of challenge when the connectivity are brought into the play of the community radio stations.  These are some of the things I wanted to share at the beginning.  When the discussion goes, I will say more thoughts on the process.  Ritu Srivastava over to you.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you, Babu Ram Aryal.  It is really ‑‑ one of the major point you mention that connectivity may have got radio stations and the connectivity when it is combined it is meaningful connectivity.  But also other issues that are turning like content regulations and safety of journalists, specifically from the perspective of local journalists, those bringing the voices of the local and marginalized communities.  That is a very important point when we talk about the exercising the rights and exercising the freedom of expression itself.  
I would like to bring into this discussion Sarbani Belur who has around more than 10 years of experience in working space of community networks.  And she has recently ‑‑ she has recently drafted a chapter for women and radio stations.  Women are exercising their freedom of expression through the community radio stations.  She has more than a decade of experience in working with community networks and working as Asia‑Pacific regional head at A‑Pac association for Radiocommunication.  Prior to that she was working with grand mar and bringing rural connectivity to the area of India.  I will bring in Sarbani Belur and raise the point that one of the major concerns that we have, when we have a community radio station and when we have a connectivity as a marriage, how women feel and how women feel and are expressing their women express themselves through the localized community radio stations.  When it is combined with the station, what are the privacy concerns that matter for women to express themselves online?  Will the radio stations help them?  What strategies do they bring when the connectivity is brought in locally by lone people and it is a concern for women. 
Those are ‑‑ Sarbani Belur would you like to introduce yourself the bit and also answer these questions from the perspective of women and expressing themselves.  
>> Sarbani Belur: Thank you Ritu Srivastava for inviting me to this session.  Hello, everyone.  I am Sarbani Belur.  I am the Asia regional coordinator for the lock net project at APC and also a fellow at ICR.  It is an organization institute for social entrepreneurships in Asia.  Based out of Philippines.  I'm happy to be a part of the session today to discuss about the roam of women in the community network.  In the community radio space. 
So my points are that recently we worked on this aspect of our women get involved in the community radio stations.  And how community radios provide a sort of platform for women to express themselves.  
And in this context, we did the study with eight women.  Eight women in remote community radio stations.  And in locations in these locations there have been no ‑‑ there has been no connectivity.  So we tried to look at how these women are working in the community radio stations and enabling information dissemination to happen within the community.  
So one of the things that we observed is that as there is no connectivity in the locations, the utilization of the smartphone by women radio jockeys.  The eight radio jockeys we interview, it was surprising to see that they use the smartphone, not in the location there in the village or the community radio station.  Because there is no connectivity there.  So they use the smartphone as a means for gathering more information.  They visit the locations in and around the village where the mobile signals trickle in.  It would actually be on a hilltop.  Or on a location that there are no trees.  It is an empty space.  Where they can sit and get information.  They gather information.  But before this process, they are actually working on focusing on understanding that where is this information?  What is this information that they need to provide to the society, to the community?  And in most of the cases, this is something information gathering that happens from the women themselves.  It is an initiative by the women.  So they are ideally not having any income from being ‑‑ by being a radio jockey in the community radio stations, but overall, they use the community radio stations for expressing themselves.  And the reason they're told is that they are not judged by anyone.  So there are ‑‑ they usually the women are judged by people.  When they are in the room which is in an enclosed room, they are ‑‑ their voice is sort of speak for themselves. 
And people in the community recognize themselves by their voice.  By the voice of the women.  The radio jockeys. 
So that is the type of empowerment that women feel that they're sort of empowered through the radio station.  The understanding that this is one of the aspects that they discussed about.  And in most of the cases, the mobile phone is a small technology.  Technology is often connected to Internet.  But in the locations where there is no Internet connectivity they use the mobile phone only for audio recording or taking photographs. 
So if there is a public Forum that is organized within the community for discussions, they use the mobile phone only for recording these and bringing it back to the radio station and doing editing.  
I think the radio, the community radio stations play a very big role in empowering women in the communities.  And they have a very important ‑‑ women play an important role.  Otherwise the women believe that there is no other way by which they can contribute to the community benefit and that aspect. 
There is very ‑‑ that is a very important aspect of women ‑‑ of community radios being converted into community networks.  Because community radio stations have all the enabling factors in receiving community network.  And perhaps this discussion will come up in the due course of time by the different panelists.  I will keep it for later.  Yeah.  That's all for me.  Thank you.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you, Sarbani Belur and thank you for bringing the small nuances of how being a radio jockey itself is a way of expressing for women to express themselves. 
Now I would like to bring Mr. Mohd Niyaz, a practitioner who has a radio station in the rural part of the country of India why he has established his radio station, community radio (audio skipping)  
He has been practicing the media practices from that more than a decade.  But also while working on that side of the country, how the radio station is exercised by people to exercise their freedom of expression.  What makes unique a radio station in rural community itself.  That is the perspective of Mohd Niyaz will be able to bring it.  I would like to ask you, what makes unique for the station to being in a rural site brings the freedom of expression?  What exactly that they do for the community?  For exercising their rights?  How do they play that role?  One of the things that we would like to know.  And when Internet is becoming evident, where does the community radio stand in that discussion?  Does community radio still need connectivity or it can work in a different model as well?  
>> Mohd Niyaz: Good morning, everyone.  Good afternoon to everyone, also.  So I'm so thankful that we got the chance to speak in IGF.  What my colleague like Babu Ram Aryal and others are told, we're lucky to have in India a lot of community radio is working in rural area.  They're doing very good work.  However we talk about the connectivity.  I will answer here how we are doing during COVID, due to Internet, we're broadcast and social media due to digitalization.  We play lot of role during that COVID when somebody staying in Mumbai or Bali or Bangalore, which is from us about 70 kilometers.  That is several miles.  We play role during COVID.  We play women's help line.  And open the things.  The people from the village here where the radio is running, we have some numbers, you can see on Facebook page all.  During 2021 we have done.  
Apart from that, yes, we need most of the radio to be connected like we are doing.  One thing here we are doing community radio.  The Radio Bulbul, we have one Wi‑Fi connection where our radio connection north and south of our area, which is around three miles, 3.5 miles where the people are staying, will upload photos.  Upload content.  One minute maximum three minutes.  And radio maximum minutes.  In India we started, the unique thing, our radio can connect society.  And we have connected in different places.  Like we have connected to our schools and another society.  Where they can upload their content.  We can see here by sitting in our radio station, right now.  
So this is the kind we have started the initiatives as well as we are in place and we're in social media.  All of the social media using the platform.  So here, those are here now, those that are sitting and listening. 
I request everybody that thinks the digital is not part of the social media.  But still the role of community radio is very vital in the rural part of the entire world. 
What Babu Ram Aryal said in Nepal, it is crucial things in Nepal.  During disaster, natural disaster, same here in India.  Maybe when we talk about the freedom of expression, social harmony.  When we talk about the rights of the women, when we talk about to stop the illegal child marriage.  So a lot of the campaign we do, not only through the broadcasting, but now the good things we have started here that we all do the casting.  We go to the places, target the community people where there is need.  We do and go do the casting over there.  
One of the ‑‑ when we talk about the connecting the community to the subject, it is that digital rights as I work from last winter.  Last 2010, about digitizing.  I believe everybody has the rights to get Internet, whoever it may be.  Every single people have rights to speak about how Internet can reach and Internet can give the rights through Internet and can get lot of information.  Like we have the scheme in mad gar.  The Government where they can get involved and work.  We have a lot of campaign in our level with the help of one of our colleague where they got the project from UNICEF.  We have done the promotion of how the people can get their rights, their information, the schemes, so we're aware of the people through the community radio.  We believe the Internet is necessary.  But to reach the people we have to give it to the community.  So thank you Ritu Srivastava, if you need, we can discuss more.  Thank you, thanks a lot. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you, Mohd Niyaz.  I still have ‑‑ we will be with you right now and ask you one much the challenges a radio station face during the time, even if there is Internet or no Internet.  And later on a would like to go to Jane as well, what makes a CR station unique that this marriage can happen and this CR station can provide a vital role in providing last line of connectivity. 
I ask what other challenges are CR station facing despite the fact of working in this kind of situation when you do have Internet but you cannot exercise those rights from a smaller side. 
>> Sarbani Belur: ‑‑ Mohd Niyaz: That is true.  The Internet, when we talk about the community radio station, Internet price is high to manage the IoT, we need broadband.  It is costly to manage this one.  This is another challenge.  Number two, to avail the people how to use ‑‑ we have to keep training the rural people.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you.  Jane, I would like to bring you into this conversation.  Why do you think that CR station can play a wider role in not only bringing connectivity but also to bring the meaningful connectivity when we say what ‑‑ and this is a common question for all of us, like when Sarbani Belur was talking about women perspective and others in other areas, why is it important for the CR station to play that role. 
>> Jane Coffin: This is Jane's definition of meaningful because I won't get into the technical aspects of some organizations that have put forward with respect to meaningful connectivity.  But I would like to think that any community‑created content and any community‑based infrastructure will be some of the most meaningful because it is about that community, coming from that community.  It is about what that community needs.  To your point Ritu Srivastava in the metasense of what community is.  I won't get into quality of service.  It is what people are hungry to have.  The content they want.  I'm from a very rural area in the United States.  I'm not in a rural area right now but radio is something we relied on. 
It wasn't community radio.  Friends of ours were part of the community radio station.  Everyone really relied on that content.  It kept the community together.  It brought them information they didn't have in some of their daily lives.  I think you were looking for Best Practices.  It is certainly you have to listen and work with your community.  You can't assume what you like is something everyone would like.  It is almost like a birds of a feather group at ITU or IGF to figure out what is helpful to the communities and I suppose meaningful in that context.  I will stop there.  I will highlight that community radio is a lifeline for many in remote communities and give them lots of information they may not be able to get if they don't have Internet connectivity right away or community network. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Yeah.  Thank you.  I think there is a question that I will ask openly, is this a licensing process for the radio station in India?  Is it straightforward?  Does this make it relatively easy process or become a politicalized?  If it has what are the consequences?  I would like to ask from you.  Radio stations have a straightforward licensing process.  Is it always easy as well that it becomes more politicalized?  What are the consequences that radio stations in India face as well?  
>> Mohd Niyaz: No.  It is now easy process.  Everything is online.  Normally it takes three to four years.  And now it is done within maximum of one year.  All is online.  One can easily apply online.  There is no hard copy.  It is easy now.  We just become a community radio.  It is easy process now.  And also trying the best to get more communities in our country.  Every corner, north, south, east do program, and it is easy now to apply.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Does it become politicalized when the political scenarios and consequences are there?  That is the question practice ‑‑ that was asked.  
>> Mohd Niyaz: Nothing like that.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: I hope this question has been answered.  If you are still on, you can still mention it as well.  Those that are participating online, please feel free to put your questions.  I will come back to Sarbani Belur.  What are the factors that Jane mentioned, that everyone is talking about.  What are the factors that enable the stations to provide connectivity?  What exactly is the unique thing that CR stations bring?  The infrastructure or human resource or the local content model?  Is that so important for any network as well?  Sarbani Belur, what kind of uniqueness would you like to say that?  
>> Sarbani Belur: Yeah, I think the most important thing is the human resource.  Community networks are complementary initiatives.  Initiatives that have.  We need the community backing.  It has to be a network by the people for the people.  It has to be them.  Community radios are radio stations that have the first level of interaction with the community the human resources within the community that is there identifying, you know, that who is a person that can maintain the network?  Because maintaining the network is a very big issue, right?  We try to find a person who has to maintain the network. 
The person that is passionate about the entire network.  So the community radio station enables or helps us in having a better understanding of the human resource that is available within the community.  
And then the community network is just setting up the infrastructure within the community, within the context of the community and to ‑‑ and also (audio skipping) partnerships that can be enabled sort of, you know, it can be a public‑private partnership or a partnership with the local Government, the village Government.  
But I think the most important thing that is there is the human resource that the community radio stations enable.  (Audio skipping) that can make the transition from the community radio stations to the community network much easier.  
Apart from it, I think the infrastructure availability that is already there, like a tower that is already there for the radio station.  And depending on the type of network that will be enabled, that we will be putting up within the community, it is dependent on that.  And you can put up some extra infrastructure.  But the radio waves of course we cannot use because for Internet connectivity we don't use the radio waves.  Those are different the other waves the microwaves that are used.  So we don't use that.  The human resource I feel is the most important aspect.  Yeah.  
Thanks.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you, Sarbani Belur.  I would like to open up the floor for the online questions and questions anyone has.  
>> HOST: In the room, if there are any participants that want to ask a question, raise your hand.  I will give you the mic.  
>> QUESTION: Hello, everyone.  My name is Issa.  I will tell my story.  There is application that we make the name is application of what is available for our rural area.  We have a podcast on radio and Internet, infrastructure.  And we make it for rural radio so the people there can keep connect and have good information for us in the city. 
And there are some challenge about that, even in the rural area, Internet come there and you see something like YouTube and another option of so many things that give image or video things.  So they have more than on podcast or radio.  We try to give more information, that is still difficult because people have much more fun maybe on social media or YouTube that gives them some video or some fun. 
Is there any solution or maybe some sharing about this story to how can we make the radio or podcast some podcast is more interesting for them, I guess?  Yeah, that is my question.  Thank you.  
>> HOST: Ritu Srivastava, if you would like to answer. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: I think that is a prevalent question for Mohd Niyaz to answer.  How CR radio stations can make interesting the podcasts like this way.  Mohd Niyaz would you like to answer this question?  
>> Mohd Niyaz: Yeah, my framework is a lot of interest in the making of videos.  You can see it available.  You will get it also.  Through that there is a lot of people from one province where they are connected.  Those who bring to the list.  They are connected from anywhere.  Any part of our world they can connect us.  It is true, not a lot of radio and social media and what radio is broadcasting.  We're also in the social media.  And no doubt, we do lot of short clips through video and sound.  We do the clips for the other kind of thing.  It may be when it was during the COVID, we have done lot of small videos during the COVID.  So you can see that one.  A lot of other radio that can work, the human shows.  Yes, a lot of people are connected now through social media.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Does that answer your question?  Should we bring more perspective on it.  I can see Carlos is also sitting over there waving their hands as well.  Hi to Carlos as well.  
>> (Off mic)  
>> OMAR PERVEZ: (Indiscernible) (audio distorted) thank you for putting it together a topic that we have been wanting to know more because indeed many, many networks are learning from the analog networks that radio put together.  And their reach in answering those informations.  Those informations with the communities from earlier.  And I would be curious to know a bit more about the sustainability and the business models, maybe from the participants from Radio Bulbul or anything that you or Sarbani Belur or Jane can say around how the transition from analog radio in the community radio to the online mode, you know, has affected.  On the one hundred, you have broader reach through the Internet, but maybe there is not that much consumption or interest from the local advertisers and the like.  I wonder how that evolved and interest in extending other connectivity could contribute to the sustainability of the community radio altogether.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you, Carlos for bringing the point of accessibility and talking about how community radio stations or any network as well, bringing the sustainability model.  This is an open question.  I would like to ask Jane, Sarbani Belur, Babu Ram Aryal to answer it.
Taking a bit of a minute to answer this and maybe combine my thoughts as well.  Jane, Sarbani Belur, Babu Ram Aryal, anyone want to volunteer for the question?  
>> Jane Coffin: I'm happy to let Sarbani Belur and Babu Ram Aryal go first. 
>> Babu Ram Aryal: It is challenging.  In a radio conference in Kathmandu, I was a panelist and we discuss about the various issues, including sustainability.  Sustainability is a major challenge and we discuss about whether the authority systems are still there or not.  Whether community radio stations are replaced by Internet broadcasting or not.  This is a major issue to be discussed these days when we talk from sustainability perspective.  
A lot of community radios are now they have moved their content from traditional F.M. to online content as well.  Some of this very interesting content have generated revenue for them as well.  
When the small entrepreneurs, they used to give advertisement to local radio stations when the contents are available over the online.  And then their business are expanded app.  And they're happy to have simultaneous online platform and locally their online platform as well.  This is bonus for advertisers.  Important parties in Nepal, is when we delivered our political system from Internet to federal.  And now we have many local level Governments that are significant on their autonomous exercise on economies.  And now various local Governments are tying it up for local affairs.  This is another opportunity to bring relationship in making sustainable radio stations.  One thing I want to highlight is the relevance of the community radio stations or F.M. radio stations is facilitating the disaster.  I recall 2015's disaster in Nepal.  The big earthquake.  Only radio stations as well as Internet Service Providers were down at that time.  With the support of Internet Society headquarters, we were able to restore the community radio stations and provided local portable power supply, power generators because of that radio stations were up.  And the people who were on the ground who were homeless, they receive regular outlets of F.M. even though they had no mobile or telephone connectivity.  So still the relevancy of radio stations or telecommunication is significant when disaster is there.  And other platform will definitely at least I see for people in few years or decades will not be replacing the relevance of community radio stations in this.  When we were designing certain policies when I was contributing to certain policies on disaster and communications.  I highlighted the importance of these radio stations’ contribution during disaster.  In discussing sustainability, we need to bring all of these aspects, not only concerning the regular content process, rather engaging in various context like disaster and coordinating with local Governments.  Or local other community organizations could be significant when we talk about sustainability, although other business models as well.  Still, if we focus on these issues and making relevancy more to the community, could we better approach sustainability?  Thank you very much. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: I think that is an open question still, anyone that wants to answer as well. 
>> HOST: Ritu Srivastava we have a person who would like to answer in the room. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Sure. 
>> ATTENDEE: Hello, I'm a Council member of Internet New Zealand.  I'm a Board Member of New Zealand of one we call Mali television.  That is funded by the New Zealand Government as part of a Treaty claim for our Mali language.  And we have a Treaty claim that funded a network of community radio stations for the last 35 years. 
So in New Zealand, we have 21 community radio stations that are specifically targeted towards the revitalization and saving of our language and cultural customs.  Sorry I missed the start of your session.  My question is really, we are finding in New Zealand that the old analog things, our community stations are confined to, it is looked upon as a poor cousin within in New Zealand.  And COVID actually served our very hard to reach Mali communities.  And the research that has just been made now found that our Mali communities used our community radio stations and they were nominated and also supported as the number one trusted source of information for our communities.  What I am asking you and hearing, is that the case among all the community radio stations that you represent?  Because it is certainly the case for Mali communities.  And our Government is wanting us to go digitally but they can't afford to pay for it.  But our communities are finding ways to use the old analog technology to provide information about a range of things that are assisting health and education of Mali people.  
>> HOST: Back to you Ritu Srivastava.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you for the story about New Zealand and how they're working in the radio station.  One of the things that I would still want to have from Jane's perspective, what is your perspective on this question as well?  What has she asked?  
>> Jane Coffin: Amazing question and great to hear about.  From a financing perspective, if you switch from analog to digital, it is a really good question, if your Government can't fund all of it, there is a new way of looking at financing.  It is not new, new.  Carlos will laugh at me because we worked on this report together.  I popped the link in the chat.  Blended finance is a very fancy word.  I find it silly on occasion.  But if you take different parts of money from different actors, investors, capital.  That is blended finance.  For years investment communities used that in emerging markets.  It is a way to say we need to derisk our investments and diversify as many funding streams in this capital stack.  Think of money stacked up from different players with different terms and ways of returning that money.  Bottom line is that you can bring different groups of people together to help you, whether it is philanthropy, public, private, whether it is Government and banks, there are a lot of banks that are very interested in helping local communities because they know the communities.  And so back to the fancy word of blended finance and capital stacks, it is basically finding different investors that will work with you and someone smart like Brian Vo that works at Connect Humanity.  He knows how to help people capitalize what you need over a certain period of time so it doesn't harm your community as far as if you pay it back or just looking for philanthropic funds to give you subsidies.  There are subsidies in every country.  Maybe not in New Zealand I will tell you for sure all across the planet there is subsidization of infrastructure because it is hard to get the start‑up funding. 
The other thing Ritu Srivastava and you were talking about earlier today is time.  A lot of traditional investors don't understand time well when it comes to building networks.  What I mean is it can take a long time to build a network to have a negotiation about land rights, which you would know way more about than we do.  Some of the folks I worked with last year, for example, it takes eight to nine months to negotiate something called pole rates, AKA where your wires can go on a pole, literally a telephone pole.  In some areas of the United States, it is very time‑consuming because you must observe tribal traditions and make sure you are not sighting towers because you think is it a good place.  You have to work with local communities.  On the finance sustainability side, you need to think about how long it will take to do what you need to do from construction perspective, negotiation perspective and financing.  There is an art to it.  Quite a few people are now looking at how to make it simpler.  The report I put the link to can help with that.  There are different business models to look at.  So for taking so much time there. 
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you so much.  Time is running out.  I would like to bring the perspective from India, that India has a diverse Region for funding.  Getting an analysis is complicated but also very mind‑boggling to understand how to part your ways to get accessibility.  Different districts or small level of local village Councils have funding.  They're not sure it will go which Sector.  Whether you fund the radio or connectivity.  That is the way ‑‑ that is the connection comes also that what the funding resources which are available locally and how you can have them for connectivity and for the other accommodation of rights when we talk about the rights and combination of connectivity as well. 
So especially from an India perspective we have seen different funds that are labeled and unused because they're not sure how to be utilized in that way.  So there is really a requirement from a local level as well as from policy level point of view to channel the funding resources and how to ‑‑ there is a large need to understand these jargons and understand the high terms on the fund‑raising and accessibility portion for the localized community networks or for the community radio stations as well.  How we can simplify that.  That is something which I would like to close up with this session as well. 
I would want each panelist to give a last thought process that they would like to close the session or one recommendation point as well. 
>> Mohd Niyaz: I will add, we are thinking with sustainability, the platform, we have one stop shot here.  Everything.  Those with the community radio, we make it one stop shop things.  Like we can give the facility to the Internet, come, do lot of work.  We have lots of community people involved with the community radio.  We can do the larger perspective.  Anything we can do.  One thing I can say here.  As a community radio, I feel we have all infrastructure, we can make the one roof soft thing.  It can happen.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Babu Ram Aryal and Sarbani Belur would you like to give closing thoughts.  We are running out of time.  
>> Babu Ram Aryal: We are running out of time.  Let's bring relevancy to the content.  And then we can adjust with the citizens.  Thank you.  
>> Sarbani Belur: Yeah.  I feel the community radio stations and community networks can work side‑by‑side.  That was a good example from the Mali community in New Zealand.  We are too working over here on certain project on restoring language of Indigenous tribal people here.  So the community radio stations and community networks can reside, side‑by‑side or work together in parallel in a particular location.  I think one (background noise) there is if it is ‑‑ both of them support offline networks also.  That is one of the major advantages of it.  
Both of the radio station and the network can be an offline network enabling services to the people.  And also an online thing.  Yeah.  That's for me.  
>> RITU SRIVASTAVA: Thank you everyone.  And thank you.  The floor for those sharing their questions and thoughts.  Thanks Carlos and the one that mentioned the wonderful story about the Mali community in New Zealand. 
>> HOST: Thank you everyone for coming to this very enriching session on community radios.  Please remember to put in all the highlights of the session to our platform, we need you to shape our census document so all of the really good discussion we had please put it in.  For everybody joining us online and all of the lovely online speakers, thank you very much.  Enjoy your lunch here on‑site.  Up next is the Closing Plenary in Plenary Hall P1.  This would be, let me double‑check.  It will be at 1:30. Please enjoy your lunch.  Thank you.  
(Concluded)

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