FINISHED FILE
Asia Pacific Regional Internet Governance Forum
Brisbane 2023
Tuesday, August 30, 2023
Town Hall Session TWO
4:00 P.M. Brisbane Time

Services provided by:
Caption First, Inc.
P.O. Box 3066
Monument, CO  80132
www.captionfirst.com

This text, document, or file is based on live transcription.  Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.  This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law. 

>> Hello, everyone.  Hi.  So welcome to town hall session two today.  I am Yen, I'm from ICANN but serving as the cochair of the drafting together here with secretary Tan is here and Lokendra is online with us as well.
For those who didn't join us yesterday if you're new to town hall session I'm just going to do a very quick overview on what this session is.  Basically for anyone to come up to share some of the key highlights or comments that you have from what you've heard from today's session or yesterday's session maybe after ‑‑ maybe more things to share and comment.  Please do later.  We'll go through each of the ‑‑ you can come up and share a comment and key highlights and then all of this will be captured into a document called the synthesis document.  So the synthesis document is done by the drafting committee and the synthesis document is actually currently open for public comment and we'll share a little bit on how you can input the comments into a platform later.  And also if you want to be a little bit more involved in drafting the synthesis document you can still join us in the drafting committee, still open for membership, just rite to secretary at SEC ‑‑ so what happens to the synthesis document, it will be published eventually and it will be used for further discussions as global arenas and other discussions as well.
So I'm going to share the time with Jen just to show how you comment in case you missed it yesterday.
>> It is on, right?  I'm connected.  Other perfect.  Hopefully you've already seen this.  If you haven't, please go there right now it's comment.APR.Asia.  Last I checked right before I got up from the panel we have 51 comments.  Let's push it a little more.  I think we can do this.  We have usually over a hundred comments for the first public comment period.  I think we had a really full day of discussions yesterday and today so how you go and put in a comment, you can see obviously each paragraph has a little speech bubble next to it.  If you click on it it will bring you to how you leave the comments, you input your name which is shown, your e‑mail which is required but not shown and then you can put in whatever comment you would like.  One more thing I wanted to show you is that each track has a little bit of an introduction here and then every single workshop proposal or session at APrIGF has its own paragraph at this point.  What this means for you is if you are at these sessions and you do think they're very important items that must be in this document, please go ahead and click on the speech bubble and input your comments.
Back to you.
>> Thank you, Jen.  So yeah we do suggest you keep this tab open throughout the today now and then also for tomorrow's session because if you hear something that you think is a key highlight that you want to include quickly as a comment then it's easy and accessible as well.  So without further ado we will start our session now just a little bit of logistic alignment.  We will try and make sure that we rotate across the on‑site comments and virtual comments.  Pass it on to Lakendra accordingly when we have hands up we do encourage people online to feel free to please join us as well to share your comments and today we will be doing the track sustainability first and then after that we'll open up for all issues which means you can share comments for all three tracks so it's access and inclusion trust and sustainability.  That's the second part.  For now we will start with sustainability so on the slide here you will see some guiding questions, can think a little bit on these questions or anything you want to share on sustainability.  So with that I'll open the floor to comments.
So again on sustainability it can mean a lot of things so it could mean things like how can we ensure that the technologies contribute to our efforts in create ago sustainability Internet or it could mean, you know, financial sustainability in retaining any of the emerging technologies or even existing technologies., it could also mean infrastructure sustainability.  I'm just trying to put out some aspects so you can ‑‑ and just to jog your memory, even just today we had quite a few sessions on sustainability.  We had a really interesting one called mines maps and minerals trace the complex material of why you are smartphone talking about that kind of sustainability.  There's been several interesting youth sessions today.  So sustainability of our actual community is something that you can also come up and say something about.  I'm sure a lot of the youth delegates have a lot to input and help with.  I know there was also a session that just ended right before the tea break from the if he will Lowe's.  So I'm sure they also have quite a lot to say.  So hopefully these ideas will, you know, get you think being.  Everyone is looking at you will, what are you talking about?
Do you want to start?  Go ahead, please.
>> I am going to answer the second question on how we can promote sustainable development and deployment and use of Internet and technologies.  So this was my take from on the mineral session you just appointed out.  So one thing that I understood was that I didn't really understand where the phone comes from or where any of our technological devices come from.  It's just if you close your eyes, open your eyes there's a store and then you go and get it.  So most of the times our lack of sustainable approach towards any form of technology comes from a lack of understanding or where that technology is coming from, where the minerals and resources for that technology are being sourced from and it makes a very conscience decision once you know where they're coming from and I think it makes it a very sustainable choice as well.  Like you try to make sustainable choices once you understand there are sustainable options available for you there.  So that was one of my takeaways that understanding and awareness about sustainable technologies.
>> Thank you.  That is one aspect as well that I did mention earlier it's the impact on environment and climate as well and anyone else with comments and sustainability track?  So I did mention yesterday as well if you ‑‑ yeah, please go ahead.  Yeah.
Running mic as well, yeah.
>> So we had a session today on this digital environmental sustainability through design principles.  So the key ‑‑ I think the key highlights of the discussions we had was on that digital environmental sustainability could be pushed through adoption and promotion of digital economy approaches and it has key elements in terms of management of E waste, involves sustainable management of E waste and also involves the needs, increasing needs because the digital society needs increasing many fold, increasing every now and then I think the need is going to manifold increase.  So where do you get the raw metals from?  Can help through urban mining processes and there's an emerging phenomenon that needs to be looked into and also whether digital circle economy approach can also deal with larger digital divide needs which is ‑‑ many societies especially global south has its own digital divide needs requirements.  But everything can already depend on the abstraction and new products and new products all the time on how to use recycle, use repair all these processes which are essential part of digital circular process.  So those things are very important to sustainability meeting these ‑‑ very critical and also one aspect is ‑‑ I may have noted down is in terms of while we want to push digital circular approach it is a larger also societal change transformation of the society where digital consumer behavior can it be addressed because that's a larger consumer can pave the way, literal transformations, you know, consumer behavior in terms of using my things, my stuff and all and that cannot be a one way approach but it has to be at all levels at institutional level, educational institutional level, household, family because a cultural change and it cannot happen in only one aspect or at one point of time.  It has to get multiple layers, level of that transformation has to come through and that will eventually push even the government can push all the government and the industry manufacturers to be more sensitive about the consumer choice and behavior that is coming which is more sustainable consumer choice and behavior.  I think that is one aspect and then also in terms of decision making is why the government almost all decision making procurement, buying purchasing markets and all, you know, exporting, everything.  So in all these processes, even in circular design policy processes the government has to take the lead in terms of what will be brought from outside, what kind of products has to be imported, what kind of digital products or manufacturing products has to be imported and also what kind of products will be used even in the government system because government is a biggest user of digital products, digital networks, servers, digital infrastructures and all, you talk about government transportation and is taking the lead because involves infrastructure investment money, investment in all and certainly the industry is also involved in the process, the suppliers and all.  So if the government really wants that we need to have a digital circular approach because digital is the next big thing and the whole world is dependent on transformation in every aspect of our life but certainly government can blot in the principle right for the very beginning so that we don't have to invest more resources in taking care of the problems rather than taking preventive in advance.  Could be saved but the problem is there I think you need to take precautions in advance while in the initial stages.  So those kind of bigger policy decisions the government can certainly take and industry and the community everyone will be following that because revenue consideration, market consideration will never go away.  But even in the circular economy process there is a marks, newer kind ref bush fished market and all.  Alternating markets can happen with sustainable product can come in.  The market will be there.  I think only the cycle can increase, can have a positive impact on the environment because ultimately we are all dependent on the environment.  Environment is supporting us until age until now and I think the next 50 years we need to see how much the environment can support us.  So if this human, policy interventions by the human government and I think the environment will be taken much care of and the circular process is very relevant for all of us and having said that and the last point is the youth because I think they are the digital generation asks now and born of this age I think they are the most rapid users, efficient universe our fast universe the change has to come from them so how the youth young generation, young population part of this process because in the last month I think in India there were certain thing around what's called social entrepreneurship in the circular economy spaces.  Emerging circular sustainable entrepreneurship coming up.  Social entrepreneurship is happening in the circular process, digital spaces.  So I think the youth population has to take the lead in terms of, you know, understanding this whole phenomena of circle economy, impact, positives and negatives and also the business sense of it, how can they also solve emerging market in he remembers it of product, services and whatnot, I think this is something that we have to take it forward and lastly this whole circular discussions also still emerging at international level or even national level.  Local level nobody talks, national level maybe some talks are happening, discussions are happening and international level something's happening but I think we need to all push at our own levels at local level education institution level what is circular economics important in our life and circle economic could be any sector fashion and style so on and so forth but of course in digital space is very important because this is a largely driving the whole society for all of us.
Thank you.
>> Thank you, you do have a few key points there.  We do encourage to you include that in comments as the census document as well.
I'm sorry I forgot to mention for larger state purposes could you state your name for the record and for comments upcoming to kindly ask that you all state your name for records.
Sorry about that.
>> So I'm representing digital empowerment foundation and it's in India south will be working the last 22 years we have been working the space and our interventions in the circle economy is the last 34 years we have been working and my name is Syed Kazi.  That's a long name but I've short end it in two words.
Thank you.
>> All right.  Now we'll rotate to online first.  I note you have a comment but we'll rotate online and come back to on‑site comments.
Lokendra.
>> We do have comments on line, Ming, would you like to go first.
>> Thank you.  I would like to share about what we discuss in YGF and meeting with industry expert.  So that in our discussion with industry expert, so what we discussed is about AI from AI from assignment to industry.  So there are many different opinions with each other.  Some people think that using AI in, you know, writing assignment for generating ideas, I think actually I think do we really need to think by ourself so that kind of stuff.  And also using AI in the industry can cause loseing the job opportunities for the people.  Some people do not think that using AI cannot effect like loseing the job opportunity for youths but some people do think that using ‑‑ AI can be used in the ‑‑ how can I say?  Can be used in repetitive jobs like pouring jobs and repetitive and you don't need like advanced decision making skills and critical thinking skills but there are many people who don't know ‑‑ who do know how to really weak in critical thinking skill and know only how to do repetitive works.  In this situation it may be because of poverty or lack of access to quality education.  In this situation it can really effect the youth career opportunities.  So because in the discussions all of us are talented and have privilege to get access to the technology and also language.  Chatgpt meant a lot older languages, they can speak like other ‑‑ have language access.  For those people between having enough skills technological skills with not having enough technological skills could be really huge.  So we discuss about the usage of AI so people have different points of view and it can cause loseing opportunities for you but it cannot cause loseing opportunity for youths so ‑‑ I also like to talk about what we are discussing right now.  So imagine technology and sustainability, I will go muted.  I just got muted.
>> We can hear you.
>> Yes.  Thank you.
Yes, and for sustainability I think that technology is really good ‑‑ can be a good tool for cutting the accessibility.  Because in the past few years in my country not many people cannot use phone.  If you have phone you are very rich person but now many people can get access to more people, get access to technology and phone and stuff that's really good and also for sustainability point of view, for example 5G can be really processed really energy efficient and can be sustainable than the 4G and also using the renewable energy in data center to cool down so that would ab really ‑‑ technology can be used, can be a good tool to be sustainable, create a sustainable Internet for all.
>> Lokendra:  Thank you, Ming for that.  We also have a comment from P ‑‑ how sustainability should be enforced upon the organizations making stuff by putting onus on the end users we are doing away from making tech accountable.  Trying to ship the onus from the users back to the organizations and back to you, Yan.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.  So we do have three in the queue now.  So please go ahead.
>> Hello, I'll Aliyah for the record from Malaysia.  I would like to talk about sustainability in the sense that it is to fulfill the needs of the current generation while also taking into consideration of not compromising the needs of the future generation and I would like to speak on particularly AI because we just had session with industry experts and during the session we had ‑‑ there was a debate going on on whether AI will replace us, take our jobs and though my personal sense is that I am not worried that AI will replace us because I feel like at the end of the day human judgment is still needed and that is a question of how can technology that is created by us outsmart us, but I failed to realize this also can send the people out there, people that are not ‑‑ I'm not talking just us here but like generally the people out there and a appoint was made that AI affects people with low skill jobs because now we see that in shops we don't need sales assistance and then for buses we don't need bus drivers and so for us we don't have to worry ‑‑ I don't have to worry about it because I have the knowledge and I can even actually use ‑‑ I have the knowledge to use AI and even capitalize on it but these people that rely on the jobs of being sales assistant and also Buz drivers may not have the privilege to use AI.  So I think that is a question of sustainability as well and I would like ‑‑ I just wanted to bring that up because I think that was a great point that we made in the session just now thank you.
>> Thank you yesterday I was in a session and I heard about a speaker said we want to be users of the technology, felt important as well.
>> My name's Luke.  Internet Governance Forum.  I'd like to add on some of the key takeaways we had with our session.  And nice term ‑‑ the art of prompting.  So I think the youth are a bit concerned in this area because we do use AI especially ChatGPT to complete our home work.  It's no secret and I think it's not going to go away any time soon and many people are afraid of this dependency.  Will it become an addiction to use AI to think of the ideas and will they lose their ability to create new fresh ideas especially ideas that can help and I had a in the betterment of the ‑‑ to address this issue there needs to be capacity building to ensure the youth are ready for AI.  In other words, AI readiness is needed in Universites and we can implement them into Universites by carrying out surveys into AI readiness in different fields in let's say AI readiness in medical students or language students or computer science students even are they open to using AI to help them do their home work or research or not open?  Or do they think it will help them or not?  And if we get the answers for this we can better create policies, capacity building sessions and implement them to make sure that the youth of the Asia Pacific are ready to build Internet for them which will help them in the future.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.  And I'll pass it on to the remote participants and then I'll come back to the comment here.
Lokendra, back to you.
>> Thank you.  We do have comments here.  Vidal, would you like to take the mic?
>> Aviral:  I think sustainability is really important in this day and age and I think we are much more creative and innovative when we are young.  So I really think the environment of youth in making innovative solutions, leveraging emerging technology like AI solution and the government should support them.  So like in I understood to create sustainability innovation in health sector and education and there's also a solution challenge that has had really ‑‑ focusing on youths developing solutions, quality ‑‑ to help youth make innovative solution to solve real life problems.
>> Thank you so much.  We also have a comment by Phil in the chat which reads people need to improve their skills and need more development in education.  Technologies and AI cannot learn, love, care, or have empathy and sympathy.  So people need to behave humanly more to win AI and not to be relayed by AI, such as nurses cannot be replaced by AI.  So thank you for that comment.
Back to Incheon.
>> Please go ahead.
>> Thank you.  I actually want to turn this mic a little bit because I feel like this is a conversation and I'm talking to the community member so it's not just facing our moderators there.  Hello everyone my name is Jenna, I am the program coordinators of the Asia of Internet Governance Forum.  This youth initiative has been going around in our community for more than ten years.  Has actually been recognized by the united nation Internet governance forum since 2010.  It was before the time I start engageing in this community and thanks to this community for creating such important program for our next generation because I would like to bring this to ‑‑ I mean we hear a lot from the youth just now and it inspired me to think about the sustainability of our community because in order to make our community running and keep going on we must nurture next generation.  Since we started so long ago and being one of the first youth IGF happening in this world I think we of course need to change the format or improving it and see how we can maximize the program and to bring more people in so we can sustain it.  This year ‑‑ take your spare time to actually jot by the program and to try to make conversation and that's a really good thing to see our next generations doing this kind of thing and ‑‑ I mean more experience even ‑‑ we were educateed in a way we would mistakenly or unintendedly use some unbias term and I consciously remind myself to use more inclusive words these days especially dealing with Gen Z.  I'm part of them by the way.  So I think, you know, we should proactively work together because we are one community.  I am confident that the youth join the conversation and make solid substance and by the way I lead that so of course I care about the things how to deliver and get them ready.  What I observed is whichever generation you are from, we should always make conversation and try to learn from each other because one day I think the new Gen Z's born after 2000 probably think that my idea is not for them because to them I am from another generation perhaps and we need to keep talking to them and know what is missing.  So we need to keep this conversation going on and back to the secretariate and the MSG member as well I think we should have a more formal way to make sure that we have this kind of conversation going on.  Make sure all the generations are informed, whether she sess subscribe or agree or not, I think we should have this conversation and one last question to add to the audience I wonder how many MSU member in the room right now?
MSG member.  Yeah, great.
Look, so I want to urge everyone in this community the future of our community and our next generation to actively participate in the MSG because we need more people.  So we have a better representation of all communities.
Thank you.
>> I was going to have a he relief ‑‑ she's here.  I'll move to the virtual participant and come back to you.  Lokendra, to you.
>> We do not have any comment yet.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.  Please go ahead.
>> Thank you for giving me the floor.  I would like to say that it's a reality that ‑‑ sustainability is a pillar for realizing covenants.  That's why trust, inclusion, sustainability, everything is related to one another.  But another important thing I consider is promoting digital, cyber culture we can say.  In this case I would say the reality of developed countries and that in developing countries is totally different.  In light of developing countries, including Bangladesh and nearby countries, the records of cyber crimes communal violence gender based or exploitation of children is really frustrating.
Another important thing is manipulation of visitor platforms by government.  In Bangladesh I would like to say there is a law now digital security act according to a statement of acting law in Bangladesh since 2018 said more than 7,000 cases has been filed in this law.
So you cannot imagine how many people have been repressed or charged or detained or even murdered by government agencies so this is really really very much awful.  Another thing I would like to share that last year we came to know that government of Bangladesh, India had technologies only to surveillance on political opponents.  So we have to speak against these things only to promote a good culture and some culture of fellows should be promoted like for respect for opposing point of view, diversity and pluralism very much important.  Thank you.
>> Thank you for that comment and we will take the next comment here.
>> Check from Bangladesh, APrIGF 2023.
>> Thank you.
>> Hello everyone from Cambodia.  I have some idea about promoting sustainability development.  I think in order to promote development maximize amount of people should get employment.  However, it seems to me that the some government and some private company those who have money in power they seem to use their money to create AI in order to ‑‑ identity of people.  I would like to beg those people who have money who have the power and skill to create AI to divine the definition and function of AI again whether it is created to assist the professional carrier as is the like professional people or it is created to replace the job of ordinary people.  Already circling with their life so what have they done wrong?  Why we need to ‑‑ it's something to replace their job to put the pressure on them.  Yeah, that's all.  Thank you.
>> Please go ahead.
>> Thank you.  I want to leave with a third question how can we ensure that we contribute to a more sustainable future for all and one thing that occurred to me when we did the survey of how many members are in the room, something that occurred to me was the importance we place on the shortness of the members and the responsibility and the work that they do tirelessly for APrIGF continuously, the magazine numbers as the secretary.  I wondered when we see something working out well and working so well for APrIGF community why not replicate it and model something similar for the youth community and youth groups as well?  So something that comes to mind is something along the lines of create a more equitable situation or future with respect to youth communities would be something similar to a magazine membership for the youth community members especially who are organizers of such events.  Coming as if he will Lowe's and either detaching from the community or not contributeing to contribute because you don't have the resources or time or anything, or the personal space any of that sort so maybe as advisors as mag members or something similar to that for the youth community you can always be there and say hey listen I cannot contribute a hundred hours as I did the previous year but I can contribute a week or two of my time and try to advise you with a couple of sessions on how the structure can bear something like that.  That can be very valuable.  So it would be ‑‑ it would lead to a more equitable solution for the youth community as well for the upcoming generations for the sessions of the youth communities and the ones where we are included to have something similar to mag.  If mag members could be advisors of that and help set it up in the first instance there could be nothing better than that and it could be the best instance that we hope for.  So thank you.
>> Thank you.  We'll be happy to see you lead that youth group and the support as needed.  We do encourage that.  All right, please go ahead.
>> Hi, everyone.  I'm Sebastian, law student from the sunny island of Singapore and also a fellow from APrIGF.  I'd like to add on a critical thinking perspective on trust and also on sustainability.  Which have not been touched on yet.  Sustainability as the critical thinking force that bridge the digital divide so usage of AI and emerging technologies is sustainable.  An example from Singapore I can share a few.  In person, basically a layman's terms someone does not have a lawyer to represent them so ‑‑ use AI to do legal research for her.  Unfortunately for her in court, the oppose lawyer found that the AI used fake cases to support her argument.  That's not a sustainable example of AI usage.  Point is not about trust or accountability.  Of course there are opportunities of AI and emerging technology.  My points on the importance of having sustainable critical thinking first in our society.  How can we strength then our digital excuse and also strength then critical thinking skills so we can leverage on AI and also know that we cannot fully use AI for everything.  Context matters, culture matters ander, ethics matters, sustainability of cost matters.  We have to do our own home work and have a ville thinking mind‑set besides purely relying on AI ‑‑ so we can have critical thinking force that knows when to trust and the critical thinking force knows how to be accountability and finally critical thinking force, mind‑set matters.  Thank you.
>> Thank you.  You did a good segue for me because we do want to open up for issues basically touched upon the different tracks.  We're going to open now to all issues which means you could touch on any tract that you would like to or any input that you think is key to highlight here and I think we already have one comment or question online so I'll pass it on to Lokendra and come back to on‑site comments.
Lokendra, please.
>> Lokendra:  We do have a very detailed comment from Gene.  It's a journal comment on APrIGF and I'll read it allowed.  Remote participation needs to be very much improved moving forward.  Considering Zoom should be on the agenda due to its extreme unfriendliness.  User ‑‑ was always terrible and no, sir resonant with small letters, how might be asking on mobile.  And then the part of the comment is about been deficient on international domain names.  Three questions and I'll read them out.  First is why international only applied to any script except latent?  Isn't latent international?  Second question is as per supply and demand, where is ‑‑ people don't use slash implement IDNs because they don't know they can.  And third is the position towards Latin characters also the same as with Arabic numerals.  So regarding these questions I'll really request if Edmon's there in the audience to sort of take it out.
Thank you.  Back to Incheon.
>> Edmon who's an expert on this, please.
>> Edmon:  Thank you.  Edmon here.  Happy to quickly respond but I missed the third one.  So let me answer the first two and then repeat the third one.  Internationalized domain names was called internationalized domain names because it is an internationalization versus a localization thing.  So it's the name.  You can call it multi lingual domain names, multi lingual Internet but when it was developed it was ‑‑ the concept was to make sure back 20 years ago the world wasn't already using completely what is called unicode and there are many multiple inn coding systems for different languages.  Instead of localization which is to make the domain name system work with the many different encodings but actually to move to unicode ‑‑ sorry for this long response but that was the background tore it.
Second question was in relation to Latin or the why I would say that because people don't know there wasn't a demand.  So there was actually a survey done by the at large in the ICANN community.  The at large survey that was done I think in Asia Pacific revealed basically that, you know, for those who first realized that there is actually a possibility of using their own native language domain names and e‑mail addresses, they actually have a very high percentage of interests in actually getting and using them.  So the data comes from there.
What was the third question?
>> Lokendra:  Thanks.  The third question is the position towards latent characters also the same as with Arabic numerals?
>> Edmon:  So you're saying that whether Arabic numerals became kind of universal and Latin characters can become universal as well.  I guess that is a question of world view.  There's a world view that, you know, we could all just use English and, you know, we will live happily ever after.  There's another world view that we believe in diversity and the preservation of the different cultures heritage and language.  So, you know, I think it's an ever ‑‑ never ending battle in some sense but I think currently at least the ‑‑ personally I believe at least the capabilities need to be there.  That battle debate can continue but the capabilities for actually having the different languages should be there and therefore it's nationalized domain names and therefore universal acceptance.
>> Thank you so much, Edmon.  We do have one more comment online from Paribhasha which reads sustainable solutions address both the short‑term sustainability of digital inconclusion initiatives as well as the long‑term sustainability of infects.  This entails looking forward to potential problems adjusting to emerging technology, and developing a continuous improvement attitude.  By incorporating sustainability principles, we hope to change the digital divide from a problem that will not go away into a legacy of empowerment where everyone will Have access to forever.
Put back to you, Incheon.
>> Please go ahead with your comment.
>> Audience:  Hello.  Okay.  Hello my name is Dali Li from Asia.  As you can see I'm very nervous right but I do have an issue to address and I am going to read through my notes because I don't want to get my message mixed up so everybody can understand me.  So as one of the next generation I believe that the next generation are still lack ago lot actually in digital literacy.  Me myself included.  In one of the YIDF sessions today we actually, you know, discovered that one term can mean various things to another.  A person can say that digital literacy just means how you use the information but another can say how you access the information.  So it's very ‑‑ comes from various definitions.  So we still have so much to learn, the next generation ander and this is why we need our proactive collaborations with all stakeholders to actually get the word across.  What needs to be done for them, us, and me is ‑‑ in order for us to have safe and secure Internet is by having digital literacy and education because it is a very violate issue and there needs to be a comprehensive digital literacy in order to educate the young people about online privacy, security, the best practices and responsible of digital citizenship.  These also include on teaching us about the risk of emerging technologies and I am so grateful for the youth having a seat, an opportunity to actually be part of the Internet governance.  We are so appreciative of the fact that we can get our voices heard too in these type of forum.  So to conclude, from today's session I believe that the affect region especially for the youth and we are still very lacking in digital literacy hence in order to move forward we have to put outstanding efforts to get bigger number of the next generation involved.
Thank you.  That's all for me.
>> Thank you.  We do want to say thank you to all the youth as well because y'all have stepped up quite a bit to share your voices as well.  We're happy to hear your voices as well and move on to the next comment.
>> Hello, everyone, I am Subli, AI researcher from Cambodia.  API fellow so I would like to touch on the question which is under the theme assess and inclusion.  The question is do emerging technologies address the preexisting digital widen or widen it further?  In order to answer this I would like to raise a real case happening in Cambodia.  I think everyone can get a sense TBT in your region.  Unfortunately it's not accessible in Cambodia, which leads to 30 white and it would say it can effect in two layers.  First of all it's about the original and global layer so you can see some regions can get assessed to charitably and some regions cannot get access and it leads to the barrier of accessibility and if you take a look at the negotiated on layer so those two are aware of this kind of technology.  They tend to make use of this technology.  They will learn to use VPN.  Based on our practice and AI in order to make yourself to use VPN also I need to use international in order to do a verification for the first time.  This is a case for me because I've got a background and those who do not even though technology and they have no clue of how to use VPN and do not even know how to use international sync in order to do verification and I think this can lead to the national layer.  Also reflects to the social status division.  So I think for trackability it comes with two ‑‑ the first one is free of charge but it comes with the less accurate information and that one is the full option which means I need to pay $20 every month.  AI researcher and my organization can support our team to pay every month.  And how about those who can get access ‑‑ but do not have enough money and cannot get access to full option which I can have the privilege to make use of those technology and that is all from my side.  Thanks.
>> Thank you.  I do want to move on to the virtual participant and will come back to the comment on site.
>> Lokendra, please go ahead.
>> We do have one online comment by Jordan that is a response to Gene.  Read it allowed.  Jordan says he wants to note and respond to the frustration regarding the event app.  As organizers and local hosts we are also not happy with how it has performed.  While you can join through the links in the daily e‑mail we want to deliver a successful app experience and it isn't up to scratch apologies for this.  That's from Jordan.  Thanks Jordan support responding to it and then we do have a hand raised from Armaan.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.
So just to want my name is Armaan.  As we were talking about the topics of sustainable appointment and digital literacy with regards to Internet governance I think one of the important issues that we might want to touch upon is AI awareness.  Not talking about the AI awareness of the system but with the local people with regards to the AI softwares I think moth of us because we have a background knowledge we have a basic knowledge about, you know, the AI softwares or the AI ecosystem but I think when we talk about the digital literacy, I think you have to come out way ahead when it comes to AI awareness because for example in India there was a movie called row bow ‑‑ very famous movie that we have in our country and I think that is one of the channels through which AI has been introduced to two people, right?  There are some problems, potential risks with regards to AI but that is not the only context of AI, right?  And I think for many of developing countries these are the channels through which people, local people learn about AI.  So even if they have a ‑‑ let's say we are successful to deliver or to enable them to digitally literate, I think we have to take thousands of steps in order to make them reach to understand what AI is and I think if we had that unconscious fear in our minds and the minds of masses I think we won't be able to take a rational decision with regards to that topic.  So I think it is very important that we also raise this issue of making people aware about what AI is, not only ‑‑ when we are talking about these issues I think AI awareness or awareness about AI is one of the topics we should touch upon.  So yeah.
>> Lokendra:  Thank you everyone.  Back to Incheon.
>> We'll come back to our comment on site.
>> This is actually a public service announcement in case there's any locals parked outside there is a hail warning for brings bon in the next 30 minutes to 60 minutes.  So if you got a car get it under cover, thanks.
>> Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, very important.
All right.  Please go ahead.
>> So my name is chart and I am a third year Uni student.  So I'm hoping that the option to just ask the question is still available.  A lot of the questions that I noticed they have the word emerging technology but don't have the word AI specifically.  But when I observe everyone's answers to my questions we're all just directing the conversation towards AI but I'm wondering whether the drafters actually is a reference for using the Word ‑‑ it seems throughout conversations that that's two have been interpreted as the equivalent.  The question I want to pose to the board because I'm partly curious myself what other emerging technologies that we can talk about because as a law student I am familiar emerging technology other than AI which is like a very hot topic at the moment.  So that's what I wanted to direct the conversation to if I'm allowed to.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.  I do agree with that point as well because it is indeed difficult for nontechnical people to understand other types of emerging technologies that are more like technical base.  So I guess like I said because AI is very much popular in the hot topic that's why it's kind of ‑‑ it's a good question.  Sorry I don't have the answer for you.
>> Thank you so much.  I'll try to respond to that.  I agree.  I mean a lot of our discussions have been fore shadowed by AI because it is a hot topic but when we were actually framing the program at the program committee and we had the discussions at that time other things were also brought up which were part of emerging examples of the block chain is one and then also quantum technologies that affect the very idea of encryption and how safely information can travel.  Then we also have 5G and other newer innovations happening in telecommunications.  We also have Internet of things.  Some of these are not particularly emerging because they have been there some time now but again in terms of percolation to the masses or in areas these technologist too remain emerging in some sense.  So not ‑‑ other things as well.  Thank you.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.
And do we have comments here on society.?
So we have none for now.  Is there anything online?
>> Lokendra:  We do have one response for Aviral on the app.  Would you like to speak it yourself or read me for you?
>> As a developer he's not happy with the event app.  He's also interested in knowing who actually developed that getting out to some event there.
Thank you.  Back to Incheon.
>> Thank you, Cheryl.
>> Okay.  Cheryl for the record and I wish I wasn't putting this on the record but I am.  Aventi we outsource to.  Let me sure you rehear you, empathize with you.  We have made these observations ourselves.  Question also assure the likelihood of this particularly useful app depends on if I'm alive or not, minimal.  We can only apologize I will take my complaints bulge note it I won't make it an introduced formal complaint but from the organizing commitment perspective I will assure you all that we've already grumbled about it amongst ourselves and it simply isn't good enough and in all seriousness the professional events organizer who has been working with us at extraordinarily long hours and additional efforts has every intention of having a very serious conversation with expectations for performance and actual performance.  So ‑‑ ooh, you're going to follow me.  Whoa, you're getting it all here today.
>> I think quite a few people follow you one way or another, Cheryl.
That was a positive comment on this occasion.
My name is Jordan Carter.  If I could burn up anymore deeply with impairment about the apps performance I would but I can't.  So what the work around is for this, and the e‑mails I have been sending you other etch morning at least definitely this morning and I think the day before there are some links down in the bottom that take you directly to the Zoom room for the stream that you're in.  The streams are one, two, three and the agenda for the event on the Web site is all labeled stream one, two, three, so you can get into the Zoom room and participate by clicking on the link that applies to the stream.  The app wasn't like this when we tested it.  They were doing a rebuild and restart that's going to happen tonight but take the whole thing offline for half an hour at least while I do it.  Without doing all that too much I wanted to say in person face‑to‑face my apologies for the performance of this delightful app.  Sorry about the effect it's been having.  Especially remote or people joining remote on their phones.  If you try clicking on a Zoom to your phone you'll know what I want.
>> Thank you.
No, I do want to note for our could host and the secretary and the organizing committees efforts and you know making this event happen as well it is a difficult one because it's original.  We do thank and appreciate feedback for improvement as well for sure.  Maybe that encompasses all issues as we reopen.  So I saw some people walking towards the door a few minutes ago but I do want phone courage the audience to walk to mine instead of the door because we do still have about 15 minutes and really want to have your voice to come up, do encourage people to come up for comments, anyone else want to raise your hand or come to the mic here.
Jen?
>> Since I have the mic already in my hand.  Oh, I do see oh yeah perfect.
Dr. Shabir in the back.
>> Do you want this mic?
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you for this ol', first I want to of those who have been taking the brunt of all the negative comments and apologizing again and again.  So thank you.  After thanking you I would just want to add my voice to this nonsensical decision of adopting to this event app because it was also inaccessible as well.  The screening the user it would not allow me to pass through the good stage so anyone using this app would have been ‑‑ I'm not sure at how people did that.  I appreciate this thing this quote of the secretariate, this quote of the fellow participants including ‑‑ assisting me in providing information to all of the informations and I feel ‑‑ if this information was available to this app.  For the synthesis document and for the next year to take the lesson that we take from this experience is that it would be ‑‑ would have been better if we have ‑‑ while selecting the app and the surrender for the event app we had used their ‑‑ one of their events in the first before actually deciding we would use this event.  So for the next year ABI she had take this lesson and also take the responsibility as part of that MSD as well.  We should have been much vigilant on to taking of this decision but at the same time would want to remind that these decisions ought to be taken collectively.
Thank you so much.
>> Thank you for your input.
And I will move on to Lokendra.  Is there anything online?
>> Lokendra:  We did have some chat around the app and well ‑‑ IEP like solution ‑‑ nothing to report so back to you.
>> Sorry, it's me again, Jenna from Asia Pacific youth.  I don't know how to categorize my comment but just one point actually because earlier this morning ‑‑ well, I have been here for five years so I did not realize that's just this morning but actually most of the community in Asia Pacific they speak ‑‑ their first language is not English.  Me myself my mother tongue is Cantonese and a dialect from an Indigenous community in Hong Kong.  In Hong Kong we do have that kind of group of people.  So I pick up English growing up.  That's not my first language and this morning in one of the workshop we have some speakers speaking, I mean from Japan and all that apparently we all use language because that's the common language we have.  Thought maybe in the future if possible of course that's a matter about money but if possible maybe when we relate to India Taiwan or Japan in the future if possible ‑‑ will it be possible to allow Kate some budget to actually allow participant to make comment or join the discussion in their native tongue because sometimes, you know, things lost in translation and honestly if I get to deliver my message in Cantonese it will be way more advanced.  That's just one thing I really want to ‑‑ and you know bring it to everyone's attention and see maybe in the future when we explore that maybe that's one thing we could consider.
Thank you.
>> Surprise.  Cheryl, and I'm saying that deliberately this time for the transcript record because should we have had funds we could have had transcripts in multiple languages.  That is purely fund driven.  And even having transcripts in multiple languages would I had a enormously into what I now recognize because I've actually been working and I don't even speak English, I'm an Australian, right?  You don't want to hear my language, trust me.  But in all honesty I have been working ‑‑ pushing for multi lingual Internet for these very reasons.  So it is incredibly important right now the cheaper automatic stuff won't do us a favor by going that way, but part of the emerging technologies and my hope for it includes this getting better and better all the time which is does.  But we actually looked at local hosts explored and it is the local host who would be having to get sponsors to fund these things, not APrIGF.  It doesn't have a budget.  We put out and ask for sponsors and grants and this tiny little bit comes in and gets ‑‑ love to give you Rolls Royce versus.  Truss me I'd love to be involved in a Rolls Royce version but as technology improves, maybe we should say something about that.  Maybe some of these solutions come along but in the case of even if we could get specific diversity sponsors hint hint for anyone wanting to run an IBIGF in the future see if you can find someone who wants to specifically sponsor the diversity especially the language diversity in your country because it is that much time to change a contract for transcripting to include all sorts of language simultaneously different strains just suit the marketplace.
So I'll put back my fiduciary hat and say it was too extensive we couldn't afford it but should we absolutely yes, we just need to find the money tree.
>> Thank you, Cheryl.  Actually I'm going to put the secretariate hat on now.  It's definitely in the past we've had very gracious, generous hosts who have supplied some live translations into local languages coming to my mind the Bangkok meeting and I think the typing meeting previously also had for certain sessions they had this ‑‑ I think the ideal solution especially in a region at diverse as we are in the Asia Pacific with languages of course that would be ‑‑ until we get to that solution we'll do every effort both in he remembers it of the secretariate and the wider community as well to make sure this APrIGF event is as inclusive as possible.  It is difficult but we of course always want to improve.  I think I'm going to hand it back to Incheon.
>> That's possible Kendra because I think we received some comments related to this topic.
>> Lokendra.  So thanks.  And first I agree with Cheryl that it is a funding issue at the end of the day and we have some comment from Walmart on ‑‑ he suggests that the task force they have all the resources related to inefficient along with links for conferencing for the record they use ‑‑ so you get all the results in the same place and it's very ‑‑ one was suggesting we can look at what IED does as far as organizing events is concerned.  And then we did have some conversation in the chat going on about language and translation.  Edmon in some previous APrIGF we had sign language translation, many participants who spoke the local language.  Mohammad said unless the translation is realtime I would prefer having a single language ‑‑ translation latency and associated mental overhead could make the meeting inefficient and inorganic.  That's all online.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.
So a lot of conversation about the event itself.  I do want to bring it back to the three tracks to see if anyone else has any comments on access inclusion trust or sustainability?  Final calls for comments.
Yes, we have one hand at the hand?  Do we have runners for mics?
>> Hey, just thank you.  I just wanted to make a comment because some of these conversations seem to ‑‑ different things in the rooms.  Yesterday we were talking about trust and one about youth forum attendees mentioned they would like to speak about accountability and I really ‑‑ really got me thinking about the experience of youth because I don't think ‑‑ and please I would love to be ‑‑ got it in the right context but you weren't saying that we don't rust ‑‑ sorry, we did trust everything.  You're saying we don't get their ‑‑ there is no trust to put the accountability and I was thinking are these actually different sides of the same coin?  Like how they're interlinked.  Accountability we need some level of trust to understand what we're being accountable and who is and how we have oversight and accountability and accountability builds trust.  Just I guess on that I also noticed this is my first in‑person event and thank you everyone for talking to me as I racked your brains.  It's been amazing to have you here.  Some of the themes being the same year on here and in terms of that I'm an Australian citizen and I would wonder we in it country, know, where is our government on this in bringing forward some of these things for our country and the region.  You know ‑‑ you know, that for me is civil society academia and the technical community have all put these points that they've put forward today a lot of them haven't changed for a number of years.  So talking trust and accountability I feel that we have to start there in that there are many governments including my own with ‑‑ that represent the people in this room who have signed the UN declaration of human rights and also it was raised in the forum today about the declaration of the rights of persons with a disability and so again on trust and accountability there is some level there about that being implemented.  On the translation services ‑‑ I think it's department of affairs do have the national translation services but an event does not qualify that support and with the level of harms that are happening from the Internet and emerging technologies I would like to see that changed and I thought I should just say those things as Cheryl said for the record and then lastly I have read some of the global digital compact some of the proposals and some of the thoughts on this various models I would like to do something more practical following this.  I did read that outer road map and it was a very interesting read I'm looking forward to talking about that from the civil society perspective and I just wanted to make that statement that the Internet was made by and for I guess that technical community and for everybody being individuals and so it disheartens me how at Rick we are with that imbalance and almost just taking of this public space.  So thank you.
>> Thank you very much.  And yeah, could you state your name for the record, please.
Sorry.
Yes.
>> My name's Kiki, thanks.
>> Thank you.
All right.  So any last comments from anyone else here on site?
[PAUSE]
>> And I believe there's nothing online as well.  For me I do have one last ‑‑ is there anybody who has comments?  All right.  Yeah.  Sorry about that.  Please go ahead.
>> Thank you.  So this is following the previous comment.  I thought I I'd maybe say something about that.  Early in 20212 things happened which for me they had one thing in common.  Unrest and Internet was shut down.  In Australia there was a flood.  So what I noticed they had in common people needed to communicate with each other for basic things and they couldn't for different reasons.  Since then I have been paying more attention to distributed technologies when it comes to communication.  There's valid reasons for that and I haven't personally seen many attempts in looking at it and of course there is always risks but necessities as well so this is just a topic proactively talk about it the measures we need to put in and regulations then we could have infrastructure communication as well in place for when it goes wrong.  Also for access to digital economy and finances as well I'm seeing that there's not ‑‑ as far as my experience there's not enough conversation about where it comes to crypto currencies all different types of conversations but in terms of how it has enabled the unbanked communities also like to see more active conversation business that and see how we can learn from the positive ‑‑ need to look at those things actively and explore them.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for the comment and could I get your name for the record, please as well?
>> Sam.
>> All right.  Thank you.
And so this is the second and last town hall session.  If you all for sharing your comments and input during this two town hall sessions.  We don't have any session tomorrow but please do still have the platform open as you're attending sessions and workshops.  Please do still input your comments on the platform directly because those are very important.  And I will pass on to Lokendra now to finish up with the next steps from here.  Lokendra over to you.
>> Thank you so much.  Before I started the next step I just have a personal story to share.  I was there in Singapore when it happens.  It was the first time I traveled to any Internet governance event.  I was 25 years old.  I was part of the youth group and I did attend the synthesis document, the down home session and it contributed to the sin sess document as the volunteer and then what I found was that the organizers, they were very encouraging, the kind of nurturing and support I got personally from a lot of you and a lot of you that I can't say all the name but it was really great and today in less than a year I have become board chair of the drafting committee and program committee and it was all possible because of the amazing work culture and the communities.  So thank you so much for that personally and I'd encourage new comers and if he will Lowe's to also join their drafting committee.  We are currently accepting volunteers and be part of this.  It's going to be amazing.  You're going to learn a lot and you'll also contribute to governance in the region.  With that I'll move to the time line.  So we have the public input the first phase open until third September then full September we will be having multiple meetings of the drafting committee, finalizing the draft we are looking at all the comments you make in the town halls and I don't know line.  Be open or public comment by the end of September and then we plan to publish after taking all the comments into account during the Phase II we plan to publish before October.  Thank you so much for joining us.  Do encourage you all to be part of the drafting committee.
Back to you, Incheon.
>> Thank you, Lokendra.  This is actually Jen.  And I have been on my tows refreshing the actual platform throughout the entire town hall.  I'm happy to report we have one new comment.  We are at 61.  So I think I just want to reiterate what Incheon said we don't have a town hall session at the end of Day three and in the previous years people have said we kind of want this.  So what I want to say is keep platform open there's going to be a lot of very interesting discussions, very scintillates workshop sessions tomorrow and we need your input because this is your document.  You are the ones here shaping this very important output from the Asia Pacific regional IGF.  Another thing happening tomorrow as well is the parliamentary track.  Also very interesting for people here and AARP going to.  It is going to be pretty much open I think I'm just looking at Anya to see ‑‑ yep, she is nodding.  Do take the opportunity to also go there because you'll be talking to law makers, legislators from the Asia Pacific region and they're the ones making, you know, legislation and regulation and they need to be part of the conversation we need to be part and be at the table and talk to them.  So please do that.  Keep the platform open.  It's comment.APrIGF.Asia.  I hope that we're going to exceed 100 comments.  I don't think it's difficult.  Please do, please do and do join the drafting committee if you are interested send the secretariate an e‑mail SEC@APrIGF.Asia.  Pass the mic to our lovely host, Jordan.
>> Thank you.  Thank you.  And hello everyone.  Not apologizing for anything now.  Hope the town hall has been interesting.  You can come up with a few more ideas for comments at the public.  Delighted to host you for a mid‑AARP drink tonight at the charming squire public.  It's outside the venue on the long street that goes on that side and you can get there inside the building.  So if it does start hailing on anyone's car or people, you will not be at risk.  We've got ushers outside, you head along that way, down out of the venue down two everybody else will out on to Gray street and turn left into the charming squire.  Upstairs in the pub.  You need your lanyard.  Find out about that point.  On the first floor functioning, if you do not have your lanyard you do not get a drink.  So bring your lanyard that's what we've got.  We'll see you bright and early tomorrow at 9:00.
[APPLAUSE]  

This text, document, or file is based on live transcription.  Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.  This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law.