{"id":373,"date":"2010-06-21T03:32:47","date_gmt":"2010-06-21T03:32:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rigf.asia\/?page_id=373"},"modified":"2024-01-25T06:50:26","modified_gmt":"2024-01-25T06:50:26","slug":"hong-kong-igf-june-18th-2010-session-2","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/hong-kong-igf-june-18th-2010-session-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Hong Kong IGF \u2013 June 18th, 2010: Session 2"},"content":{"rendered":"

Youth and Internet Governance<\/span><\/p>\n

________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Youth and Internet Governance<\/p>\n

Hong Kong IGF
\n 11:30-13:00, Friday 18 June 2010
\n Hong Kong<\/p>\n

DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live
\n speaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may
\n contain errors and mistranslations. An edited version of the
\n realtime transcript which amends the inherent errors, will
\n be posted later. LLOYD MICHAUX and APrIGF accept no
\n liability for any event or action resulting from the
\n contents of this transcript.<\/p>\n

________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: welcome you all to the RIGF. This is our
\nyouth forum and we would like to make some report.
\nEverybody knows, if you know, that when you read our
\nbackdrop, you will see it’s 12 to 18th. From the 12 to
\n14, we already in Sai Kung, we have already held three
\ndays, two nights youth IGF camp and these are some of
\nour participants and they are trying to support their
\nrepresentative. I brought seven with us.<\/p>\n

But all of them are from the Y IGF camp. They are
\nselected by their peer groups. They are representing
\nthe whole camp to what is the conclusion they came up
\nto, the camp, I’m responding to the charity project
\ncreation. I spend a very great time with them, within
\nthese three days, what kind of topics they have
\ndiscussed.<\/p>\n

Before they come to the camp, they have to submit
\npapers of what is censorship, the second topic is
\nsecurity and privacy and the third one is the cyber
\ndifferences.<\/p>\n

Within all these papers, I feel very odd that people
\nin Hong Kong, they never heard about this gap, so we
\ndecided to use one of the topics. We have called it the
\ncyber gap. I would like to hear what is their idea
\nabout this topic and one thing I have to introduce to
\nyou Y IGF camp, our discussion forum is going to reflect
\nthe real IGF spirit.<\/p>\n

We suggest for a very balanced participation, that
\nall participants have a fair chance to play their roles.
\nThey are going to play the NGO, government, youth and
\nthemselves. Youth is a lot of different kind of youth.
\nWe are talking about born after 1980, very frustrated
\npeople, and some of them we call it in the — and that
\nis something we would like to take a deeper
\nunderstanding about it and some private enterprise.<\/p>\n

So they divided six different types of people to
\nnegotiate or discuss within the table.<\/p>\n

Today, is a very good chance we have Ken and also is
\nMr Ken is going to give some feedback.<\/p>\n

For today, each group of youth, we suggest by each
\ntopic and we have about 15 minutes for your report.<\/p>\n

Then after that, then we will invite Mr Ken for his
\nfeedback and then we have 30 minutes for the guests,
\nopen the floor for questions.<\/p>\n

First of all, they spend a great time in the camp
\nand we are very proud of them.<\/p>\n

I am going to pass the mic to the first group and he
\nis going to introduce themselves to you.<\/p>\n

>> : Hee I can Tseng. I’m very proud to represent the Y IGF
\nas one of the representatives, to share our three days,
\ntwo nights, what we have discussed.<\/p>\n

One of the topics is privacy. Then I’m going to
\npass the time to Heiki.<\/p>\n

>> : Heiki Tsang: So I would like to give you some
\nbackground about internet and privacy. I think
\neverybody have heard about ruby. This high school girl,
\nshe is in Youtube. She send clips on Youtube and have
\na lot of different feedback from the public, but the one
\nthing is she, because she’s a web user, her information,
\nshe has no idea that somebody might use her information.
\nThat’s her information or the people she knows and be
\nsearching her information, then everybody come to find
\nout all the name, her address, her family background,
\nschools, all this personal information has been open to
\nthe public.<\/p>\n

He’s just a normal person, but because this one is
\nprivacy invention, then she became a very famous person
\nin internet, because you have to heard about the uncle
\nfrom the bus. But these people just want to have a game
\nor these people have been her privacy been revealed and
\nshe has a different impact or pinpointing by people or
\nimpolite things happen to her, but up to the global
\nhuman right, what is privacy? Everybody’s private life,
\nfamily and her communication cannot be open or revealed.
\nBy people. Nobody can have a bad impact, pinpointing to
\nthat person.<\/p>\n

But when the internet became one of the platform, we
\ndon’t know how we are going to use the freedom of
\nspeech. First of all, some of them want to confirm
\nabout our identity. We give out our personal
\ninformation. Some people will post it or use it in
\nanother way.<\/p>\n

There is three suggestion and comments for the uses.
\nFirst of all, is to understand how serious, how much
\ninformation we have revealed or disclosed is Sam
\nJackson, she said if I can go back to the past, a lot of
\nthings he will choose not to post on the internet.<\/p>\n

He doesn’t know who is talking to the person,
\nbecause he want his message or the information, who will
\nbe get those people and who will be using it and what
\nkind of usage would that be.<\/p>\n

One of the or some like this social website, we have
\nto be very alert. We have to understand what we have
\ndisclosed, as well as like Facebook, your friends, they
\nmight be revealing their own, disclose their own
\ninformation. We have to be alert.<\/p>\n

Because we have to know how serious, what is the
\ncontents we are going to share, who are sharing? We
\nhave to be responsible for it. We have to take it very
\nseriously.<\/p>\n

The second one, we have to know what kind of news
\nfrom our platform, once in a while, this social website,
\nthere is a like of things like circles and they have
\nrevealed a report and between the in Facebook, they have
\na lot of violent attack. This negative impact attacks,
\nmaybe they are looking for some personal information and
\nusing the wrong way or they steal somebody identity or
\nidentity threat. So what kind of you using the website
\nare you using? Will it be any danger situation, except
\nthat we don’t know.<\/p>\n

As a user, one thing is very important, that we
\nignore what kind of — how the website is going to use
\nour personal information. Will they generate or selling
\nour information to them, but when we agree to their
\npolicy, but we never know what is it. But it’s very
\nhard for us to protect ourselves this is this way. So
\nthis is my report and I will pass the time to Ricky.<\/p>\n

>> : Ricky Kung. I remove the microand make me much
\nrelaxed.<\/p>\n

I would like to ask you one question. Have you ever
\ntried in the internet and type in your phone, your name
\nor your email address? Have you ever think of any
\nprivacy, if you upload a video or photo or you have some
\nattack in the website or internet, have you ever think
\nof your privacy? When we registered a lucky draw, we
\nprovide a lot of — this company, do you understand what
\nthis company are doing? Nobody really knows and nobody
\nknows what kind of usage will be our — how these
\ncompanies going to use our personal information. We
\nhave no idea. As a youngster, not only us, but for
\neverybody in here, everybody is an internet user, that
\nwe are responsible to read these website provider of
\ntheir privacy policy.<\/p>\n

And then we have to decide whether we should post-it
\ninto the web and now I would like to share with you
\na private sir statement which I find from one of the
\nwebsites.<\/p>\n

Please look at the slide.<\/p>\n

As you can see, there is over 5,700 words of
\na privacy policy.<\/p>\n

As a user, everybody is necessary or interested to
\nread these 5,700 words?<\/p>\n

We are sociable user. We won’t join one or limit
\nourselves in one social website. As a youngster, we
\nwill choose an easier and faster, convenient, rather
\nthan reading thousands of words and thousands of words
\nabout the policy, which is kind of contradict with the
\nconvenience of internet.<\/p>\n

These kind of social website and the policy from
\nthese companies, they renew their policy very
\nfrequently, as they renew it in April 2010 and we are
\nonly in June, is only about two months. It doesn’t make
\nmuch difference.<\/p>\n

The other one, the other issue that emerge, there’s
\nno transparency about it. We didn’t know what kind.
\nA lot of other website, for example, we remove some of
\nthe pictures or information or videos. They will still
\nkeep a record, but even though you delete it, all this
\ninformation, but these statements only takes a very
\nlimited spaces there this 5,700 words from the statement
\nor policy.<\/p>\n

So within these three days of camp, I ask them
\nwhether they could shorten this policy, but the legal
\nadviser is impossible. So I really would fight for the
\nright to, before I do this research, I don’t know what
\nis Trust-e. Have you ever heard of Trust-e?<\/p>\n

I asked a lot of people of any kind of tall,
\nshort, man, girl, nobody knows what Trust-e is.<\/p>\n

A lot of Trust-e, nobody knows. Education,
\ngovernment, even the Trust-e corporate, they have the
\nresponsibility to tell us what is Trust-e.<\/p>\n

Now I would like to explain to you what is Trust-e.
\nWhat is the security and what is privacy protection for
\nusers, they suggested to the companies, when they read,
\nwhen the user read the policy, then they can save some
\ntime.<\/p>\n

The other thing I would like to say, every time we
\nuse some companies service, they kept a lot of our own
\npersonal information, for example, accident, nobody
\nknows when, because accident comes anyway. Because some
\nhackers have cyber attack, you cannot expect. No matter
\nhow alert or how careful we protect ourselves, but in
\nthe cyber world, we cannot protect ourselves or our own
\npersonal information.<\/p>\n

So there’s three types of hackers. There’s black
\nhat, grey hat and white hat.<\/p>\n

Then white hat, they should have to invite more
\nwhite hat, because they will try to hack to their own,
\nhire to somebody to hack into their website, so they are
\ngetting well prepared before the black hacker, before
\nthe black hackers attack them, they can protect
\nthemselves. I think it’s a very good method to use to
\nprotect themselves from hackers.<\/p>\n

It’s a better procedure is before somebody hack into
\nyour website, stealing this personal information from
\nyou, you protect yourself first.<\/p>\n

Another is the internet user, we have to speak our
\nvoice about and also reveal our comments and ideas to
\nthese suppliers, when one of us, we have a commonsense
\nin this internet privacy.<\/p>\n

In order so we can protect ourselves, and in order
\nto protect our own privacy and personal information.<\/p>\n

I’ll pass it on to Kit. I’m sure she’ll continue.<\/p>\n

>> : Kit Yeung: I think when we look into this situation,
\nthere are three major areas we can tackle this privacy
\nissue, which are education, legislation, and
\nenforcement.<\/p>\n

Firstly, I would like to talk about education.
\nEducation is really, we need more funding for NGOs to
\nreally education our parents and teachers and students
\nto protect themselves on the internet privacy field.<\/p>\n

Schools have to provide more training and courses
\nfor both teacher and their students on how to protect
\nthemselves and retain their own personal information
\nwithout giving them out easily to other internet
\ncompanies or other service providers.<\/p>\n

Really, training additional peer supports, because
\nsometimes even you teach them, they don’t really get it.<\/p>\n

But if using a team as a media, it is much more
\neasier and effectively to tell those teenagers that what
\nthey should be concerned about, how they should protect
\nthemselveses from on-line space and advertisements as
\nwell.<\/p>\n

To increase the general awareness of the social or
\nthe internet privacy issue.<\/p>\n

Secondly, legislation. Legislation, I’m suggesting
\nto introduce a buffer zone that is in place between
\nupdates of privacy statements.<\/p>\n

This buffer zone is to give the user time and to
\nhave reasonable time and time to reflect on how the new
\nprivacy statement will have affect them. They can
\ninteract with the internet company to discuss about
\nthese situations, before it actually effective.<\/p>\n

This gives user a more ensure. To let them know
\nthat it is not what they change we have to accept, we
\nhave time to input and ask them to negotiate with their
\nuser and to teak their new privacy statements before
\npush it out.<\/p>\n

We suggest as well a clean, easy to understand
\nprivacy statement.<\/p>\n

It is impossible, as my teammate pointed out, there
\nare 5,700 words, which is close to impossible for anyone
\nto read it. They usually make it extremely small box on
\nthe registration form.<\/p>\n

It is impossible to read from it. So we are
\nsuggesting an easy understanding statement, like a point
\nform or summary, about the privacy statement, which is
\nthe main point that affects the user most.<\/p>\n

Other related to, say, law, we can really not put it
\nall together and to just present to users.<\/p>\n

We should also have standard guidelines which
\ncompany must comply, like a basic standard and
\nvalidation, such as the Trust-e. We can introduce
\na very low standard at first, then we increase it every
\nyear to help to maintain the standard of the privacy.<\/p>\n

We can also against people who actively collect and
\ndisplay personal, other personal information. Because
\nthis kind of personal information disclosure are not
\nreally nice things to do and it is hurting other people
\nand try to make other people self-censor themselves. So
\nit must be against and other people should be protected
\nfrom being self-censored.<\/p>\n

Lastly, I would talk about enforcement. I think,
\nreally, a privacy commissioner should more actively
\nposting those company who retain huge amount of personal
\ninformation. No matter if it is anonymously,
\nnon-retractable information. It is really key
\ninformation that you should care about.<\/p>\n

They should actively disclose. How will they use
\nthese personal information in their business practice?
\nTo let user to understand my information, where it go,
\nhow you will use it. Will it use against me?<\/p>\n

That is pretty much all of it.<\/p>\n

These concerns must be negotiated between
\nstakeholders of pretty much everyone.<\/p>\n

Thank you for your attention. Privacy is finished.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng I really appreciate this group of
\nstudents. They are working on privacy. Example what
\nthey just said, well like posting pictures, photos on
\nthe social website, is not really something that I would
\nlike people to do. Also, having freedom of speech, on
\nthe other hand, you should be aware that you have
\nresponsibility on the website too.<\/p>\n

There is someone who want to add on. Ken will make
\na speech.<\/p>\n

>> : Ken Chang thank you, Elaine. They did very well and
\nthen they under this topic, they did it very detailed.
\nThey have detail on every point.<\/p>\n

Also, in the ordinance, they are very clear about
\nthe ordinance.<\/p>\n

Even adults, we surf a website, we didn’t pay so
\nmuch attention onto the privacy statement or somewhere
\nthat potentially is a trap or somewhere like
\nparticularly on the social website, how they are going
\nto use our personal data.<\/p>\n

When I use Facebook, I’ll pay more attention to such
\ndetails.<\/p>\n

Next time when I log-on this social website, I’ll
\npay more attention to the details, as to how I am
\nprotected, like my personal information or how it is
\nuploaded to the website, how it is going to be used and
\nhow it is going to be protected.<\/p>\n

It is very well researched, this team.<\/p>\n

I would like to add more to this area, what we just
\ndiscussed on more on a global scale. Just now, we talk
\nabout glooming. This is talking about you put up a name
\nand get other people information.<\/p>\n

It is called cyber bullying.<\/p>\n

What I think this area, youth and adult, we have to
\npay more attention. Maybe ourselves, we have misused
\nthe information.<\/p>\n

Also, we are not aware this action putting other
\npeople information, photos on the web, it is infringe of
\nother people privacy.<\/p>\n

I’m saying that we should be more aware of how we
\nare going to use other people’s information.<\/p>\n

All the time, most of the time, we think that
\non-line, we are having a private communication, which is
\nnot.<\/p>\n

On this social networking website, it is very
\npublic. Then it comes also the responsibilities.<\/p>\n

Also, you comment you have to be responsible for you
\ncomments, too.<\/p>\n

I think youth, new generation, even adult, we have
\nto pay more attention to these areas.<\/p>\n

It is a big information age we are facing, so this
\nis a very, very good point to be raised.<\/p>\n

Just now, we talk about privacy, on-line privacy.<\/p>\n

Young people, how they are going to load their
\npersonal information on the website.<\/p>\n

For example, Elaine was just saying that she’s
\nchecking every day on-line whether her information is
\ndisclosed on the website.<\/p>\n

Young people may think that it’s not very totally
\nutterly such a concern, your personal information being
\ndisclosed on the web.<\/p>\n

In a secondary school context, the student found
\ninformation being disclosed on the website. I like to
\nraise one point. If the secondary student, their total
\nbackground is being disclosed on the website, it’s very
\nhurtful to their feeling. For example, your fellow
\nstudent disclose a student and then disclose them on the
\nwebsite, the full detailed personal information and then
\ndeliberately to disgrace him.<\/p>\n

So the other person can do nothing, even when he
\nreport it to the teacher, the teacher can do nothing
\nabout it, because the information has been spread and
\nthe story, this has been spread.<\/p>\n

Just now, I have been to a conference in the US.
\nIt’s about school internet conference.<\/p>\n

We talk about one point. When you are witnessing
\nseeing someone being bullied, physically bully someone,
\nif you are a bystander, you are a culprit. They put
\nthis idea, comparing to what’s happening on the website.
\nSo it is to say that in the website situation, it’s the
\nsame thing. Who you witness a bullying case, and you
\ndon’t do nothing, so you are a culprit too. So they are
\ntrying to put this into the internet context.<\/p>\n

I would like to emphasise this. It’s very hurtful
\nto the student being bullied. It’s very hurtful to his
\nfeeling and the damage could be very long lasting.<\/p>\n

Nowadays, website, there is a problem on the
\nwebsite. You cannot react to website bullying as
\na teacher, as an adult. When the youth being bullied on
\nthe website, how we are going to deal with it? Is there
\nany direction that we can follow?<\/p>\n

On the other hand, the student has responsibility,
\ntoo. Because they put on their — they put their
\npersonal information on the website themselves and
\nwithout realising the information will be misused or
\nused against them.<\/p>\n

The other point, we have to think think aboutr it,
\nyour personal information, where you go, your personal
\nhobby, is it right to put it freely on the website?<\/p>\n

In our liberal education, in the classroom, should
\nwe put more emphasis in this area? Recently, I come
\nacross with some cases where youth has put up their very
\nintimate photos with their friends on the website and
\nthen something happened. Their fellow student, they
\nspread this, they forward these photos.<\/p>\n

So that the present boyfriend has seen it.<\/p>\n

What is happened, the relationship was damaged and
\ngone.<\/p>\n

So this is reality.<\/p>\n

So don’t overlook your personal information.<\/p>\n

A lot of times, young people may think it’s not
\na big deal putting your personal information on the
\nwebsite, but how does other people will use it. I think
\nit is a big concern.<\/p>\n

What we just talk about, one point on legislation,
\nthere is an ordinance on this. I think this ordinance<\/p>\n

has to be improved and also this ordinance has also has
\nto be updated.<\/p>\n

Under enforcement, we should think about very
\nclearly how a trustee is being educated, being known,
\nbeing acknowledged.<\/p>\n

In the past, the consumer council has played its
\nrole. They play the role of making this known.<\/p>\n

In our context, Trust-e, do we have someone like
\nthis, like a consumer council, like this kind of body,
\nto let us know, let the public know, about this grey
\narea? This is what I want to say. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: Thank you for Mr Ken and I know that all
\nthe youngsters, if there is feedback or question, please
\nfeel free. We have one person who has several
\nquestions.<\/p>\n

>> : Kit Yeung: Because I talk to my sister in Chinese, in
\nsome occasions, it’s the opposite, because the school
\nactively would like to learn the information from the
\nschool, because they are religious school, because they
\nwill get into the students Facebook and then they will
\nlook at your pictures, if you have very intimate
\npictures, then they will give you penalty. They will
\npost it in the school because why we give you a penalty,
\nbecause this is because you have an intimate photo on
\nFacebook.<\/p>\n

This is not only about teenagers, but other people
\nin Facebook and other people in the internet.<\/p>\n

The role of the school, what is going to help to
\nreveal, to disclose the school identity, because these
\nactions are not conduct in the school or wearing
\nuniform. Why? She has to go under these school
\ncensorship.<\/p>\n

>> : Ken Chan actually, in some school, some teachers, they
\nwill act this way, but I don’t know why. Because some
\nteachers are very nice. They really concern or care
\nabout their students, so they will read Facebook
\ncontents and what are the students doing and besides
\nstudies or they have any difficulties in their own lifes
\nor psychologically they give them some consulting.
\nThese are very positive. But just what you have
\nmentioned, to see what they did during their free time,
\nwhen they are reading from their Facebook and their blog
\nand then they give them penalty, then it is the first
\ntime I have ever heard about it.<\/p>\n

Will that be in some certain things that we have to
\ndiscuss? Because in these occasions, already outside
\nthe school, secondly, intimate pictures.<\/p>\n

If the person have take second thoughts about it
\nbefore she post it on the Facebook and then it has no
\nviolating the laws of Hong Kong, then I think these need
\nto be discussed.<\/p>\n

Another point is when we are talking about privacy
\nand freedom of speech and in our moral society, how we
\nare going to draw this line. This is the most important
\nthing.<\/p>\n

If we cannot draw this line, everything can be — we
\nneed to consider why and why not before we act. If not,
\nthen the space, the reality, is an extension, but still
\nwe have to obey some laws.<\/p>\n

But besides the legislation, is there a free space
\nthat we can use. This line and then we have to build
\nthem or how to build this line.<\/p>\n

At this moment, we cannot make all these definite
\nlines, but hopefully in the future, we can.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: thank you, Mr Ken. Then we go to the
\nsecond group.<\/p>\n

The second group will be about censorship. Then
\nhe’s going to introduce themselves.<\/p>\n

>> : Jerry Tam: Hello everybody. This is Anson, my
\npartner. Today I would like to talk about censorship.
\nI’m very happy that we can speak in this occasion.
\nYesterday we prepare some materials and today I’m very
\nsurprised, before we came, we took five slides away.
\nOne is talking about is what is censorship, what is
\ncensorship, what is the impact, why censorship is
\nnecessary, but before we came in, is it something that
\nwe need to stay state in this occasion, because
\neverybody know what is censorship.<\/p>\n

I would like to reveal our view from our angle.
\nThis is a picture I would like to show you is children
\nis from our point of view.<\/p>\n

Some solutions. How are you going to protect
\nourselves? This is where we start.<\/p>\n

The first picture is very hot, maybe boring, this
\nmay make you up.<\/p>\n

This picture, this slide is shown very clearly what
\nis our thought.<\/p>\n

It’s very simple.<\/p>\n

Some violent or sexual revealing materials should go
\nunder censorship. For some political or economic
\ncontent should be kept.<\/p>\n

This is the common understanding we got as a result.<\/p>\n

What is censorship?<\/p>\n

The previous slide, how to differentiate what must
\nbe needed to delete and then some conclusion.<\/p>\n

The first one I would like to introduce is the UN
\nconvention on the rights of the child.<\/p>\n

But if you are talking about our conventions, why we
\nhave to mention, because this is their 20th anniversary
\nand then Hong Kong is one region that signed this
\nconvention. This is how to protect the rights, what is
\nthe definition of children is under 18.<\/p>\n

Over here, I think I’m only person who is under 18.
\nIt is not how to protect myself only, but also how to
\nprotect all the children.<\/p>\n

One statement in here is No. 17, is how to protect
\nchildren from any information that might harm their
\nbenefits or their person. Because it’s very difficult
\nto differentiate what actually should be protected.<\/p>\n

When we sign this convention, and we are one of the
\nparticipants, it’s very clearly stated in this
\nstatement, not only for the government, but everybody,
\nall of us need to protect children from violence or
\nanything about sex and because they are not well
\ndeveloped, they are not mature, so there might be
\na negative impact in the future.<\/p>\n

Based on this convention and we need to know how to
\nimprove it.<\/p>\n

As we have one very concrete conclusion, I would
\nlike to share with you.<\/p>\n

You can see this is a meeting room, when we say is
\ninternet censorship committee. You can see my face
\nhere, because I am children, so I’m a child. Not only
\nthree parties should be there, it’s government, adults
\nand children. Why children voice so important? Because
\neverybody think we are discussing is about the children.
\nWhen we are talking about the convention from the UN is
\nalso we have to give the right for the children to speak
\nfor themselves and then there’s some might be possible.<\/p>\n

First of all is to raise some policy, some internet
\ncensorship, voices from children or teachers, to see
\nwhat might be possible to conduct, what kind of studies
\nabout censorship.<\/p>\n

Of course, there must be voices from the children
\nalso also there’s education and promotion. When we are
\ndoing internet censorship, we rely on IGF to do the
\npromotion, but who is understanding? Maybe a school
\npromotion is very important or for the parents, but
\nthese association or committees can add some education
\nelement. Not only children, but also the teacher and
\nthe parents, what more they can do and all your survey,
\nmaybe undergo some survey, what is the children thinks
\nabout internet censorship or the point of view from
\nparents and teachers and I think this is very useful for
\nHong Kong.<\/p>\n

As I have mentioned, because in this camp, we are
\nhaving a role play. When I’m representing, playing the
\nrole of the government, before we have any suggestion,
\nwe should go under a survey to see that we are
\ncommitted, what we are going to do, introduce our job
\nnature. Then what is the citizen, what is their
\ncomments? That’s what the Hong Kong Government have
\nbeen doing. They are doing a lot of survey already and
\nthe last point is, as I have been giving a chance for
\nthe children to speak.<\/p>\n

Because adults have their own thoughts and they will
\nthink, have to censor everything, every day, about
\npolitics, the children might say something very violent,
\nwould have a negative impact on us, or maybe the adult
\nthinks politics is also have a negative impact.<\/p>\n

So the adults and the children may have different
\nthoughts. They have to have a platform for the children
\nto speak and Anson will tell you more about our
\ncommittee, who is participating and the pictures you
\nhave seen, protection, one is about freedom, who kind of
\nmaterials that we can watch from internet. Thank you
\nfor.<\/p>\n

>> : Anson Lau: This is our censorship committee, the
\nresult from our camp. Within this committee, there is
\na different stakeholders, NGOs, government
\nrepresentatives, education representative, teachers,
\nteenagers, for example, children or the rights for the
\nchildren to speak, IT companies, because in censorship,
\nwe need help from these IT companies to design
\nprogrammes, what need to be censored, what need not to
\nbe censored. We have to ask the IT when what is the
\nrecommendation, also parents. I think parents is
\nvery — as we think, a family education is also very
\nimportant, because the children will keep in touch with
\ntheir peer groups, with the teachers and parents. So
\nthey usually surf internet at home. So I hope the
\nparents in this committee can, what kind of information
\nthey can get from the information, what kinds of
\ninformation they don’t want.<\/p>\n

Within these stakeholders, they will elect
\nthemselves. They will have a period of time, who is
\ngoing to be chairman and then another stakeholder will
\ntake his place.<\/p>\n

So let’s look at the level of censorship.<\/p>\n

In the camp, we really reject that children is going
\nto get into something violent or pornographic materials
\nfor the children.<\/p>\n

I think this is good. You should take a look at it.
\nIf you don’t read it, this is — they have peer
\npressure. These pictures that I should read or under
\ncuriosity. But these pictures might be very bad for the
\nchildren on their mindset or they have a negative image
\nor messages passed to the children.<\/p>\n

So that’s why very strong in that censorship that
\nthese all bad information should be filtered and also
\nthe parents help is very useful, because for children,
\nfrom sensitive matters, what is not to get pregnant or
\nmaybe something for something very bad or negative
\ninformation.<\/p>\n

But this is very neutral or safety. This is
\npositive image. If we don’t have the help from the
\nparents, maybe the children will get into some negative
\nimpact. People might — the children, instead of
\ngetting the correct sex education, they might get
\nsomething which is negative.<\/p>\n

That is something we encourage the parents to watch
\nTV with the children or even though in this IT
\ngeneration, should the parents accompany the children to
\nsurf in the internet and the solution is if some adults
\nor more mature youngsters and they want to read how to
\nmake bombs, maybe it’s just a research topic or when
\nthey are in the university, they have to go undergo
\na project and they want to know the procedure, how to
\nmake booms, these are kind of dangerous messages.
\nThey’re not going to implement. But when they try to
\nlog-in to this kind of bomb making or violent or sex
\nwebsite, then first of all, besides log-in your age and
\nthen your birthday and also they need to be credit card,
\nbecause credit card, youngster may not have their own
\ncredit card, so they have other email address, ISP email
\nalso is only subscriber. Adults can own these kind of
\nemails. So hopefully if these kind of sensitive or
\nspecial information website, this kind of special data,
\nthen we can confirm this is an adult or more mature
\nperson before they can get in touch with this kind of
\ninformation.<\/p>\n

On the other hand, we really against the political
\ncensorship. Why? Like the problem in Tibet or the
\nSecond World War or the June 4th incident of Beijing,
\nthese are not things for censorship. These are
\nsomething is part of our history.<\/p>\n

It’s the truth and it’s our truth. If some children
\nor students, they want to research or take a better look
\nat these politics issues, the reason and the procedure
\nand what is the result and what’s the impact, these can
\nfulfil their wants about new knowledge. Why do we have
\nto censor this kind of information? We should not stop
\nthem from freedom of learning, because they want to
\nlearn, they want to understand the incident.<\/p>\n

To learn a lesson from this incident, to make
\nthemselves to avoid from making the same mistake again.<\/p>\n

Also, make themselves to be alert about not to have
\nthis happen again.<\/p>\n

With this kind of censorship, with this politics
\ncensorship, is for researcher or students or historian,
\nit’s very unfair.<\/p>\n

There is a gap, there is a big gap, if they could
\nnot find information regarding to these issues.<\/p>\n

Recently, the incident about Google China, the
\ntrigger point is Chinese Government, they have high
\ncensorship and they hack the people in opposition, their
\nemails.<\/p>\n

All the while, the government has totally
\ndiscouraged about Google, Falun Gong, and because of
\nthese triggers, that leads to all these political
\nproblems, the diplomatic problem, I think Chinese
\nGovernment should be more wise and the China government,
\nthey can avoid Google from being exiting from China
\nmarket.<\/p>\n

When people in China, they want to know more about
\nthese sensitive issues, the more they want to censor it.<\/p>\n

I think in general, it’s not a good idea. People
\nwould like to know the history. They have the freedom
\nto know.<\/p>\n

Another point is, about censorship, in relation to
\nreligion. Everyone, teenager, we should respect
\ndifferent religion. Perhaps, say, Islam, they study the
\nKoran. We understand they shouldn’t reveal their body
\nfor female. We should respect the doctrine about their
\nreligion.<\/p>\n

We want to do business or penetrate into this
\ncountry, we should know and follow what’s in their
\ndoctrine.<\/p>\n

Let’s look at this slide. I have National
\nGeographic cover page. This is about, in the Islamic
\ncountry, a couple, the photo being very intimate, is not
\nsupposed to be shown.<\/p>\n

So what I want to say is that we should respect
\nother people’s religion.<\/p>\n

In conclusion, I would like to say about the UN, the
\nstatement on, firstly, education, secondly in the
\ncommittee, children have the say.<\/p>\n

Globally, we filter and discourage children from
\ngetting information about violence or pornography and we
\nare against political censorship.<\/p>\n

We should develop our value, own value and we should
\nhave the right to know the history.<\/p>\n

About religious censorship, we should respect that
\nand we should respect this.<\/p>\n

This is my presentation.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: now we open the floor for Q and A. IGF,
\nthere is a mission for IGF. One of the missions is to
\ndevelop a better worldwide web for the next generation.
\nWe now share our ideas in this forum.<\/p>\n

I have one point to add. The content on the
\ninternet, the content is not poisonous. What’s
\npoisonous is not how how you use the information.<\/p>\n

>> : Ken Chan: I respond to just the last presentation.
\nI would like to think more into certain areas. Just
\nnow, it was mentioned, what do we censor? Who is
\nsupposed to do the censorship? Under these two areas,
\nthere should be no censorship on politics.<\/p>\n

Also, not on religion, but there are a lot of grey
\nareas.<\/p>\n

I would say, politics, religion and terrorism, they
\ncould form an ally, they could be very close. It’s very
\nhard for us to define.<\/p>\n

We have to really be in their country to know, well,
\nfor example, Al-Qaeda. Would you post your Al-Qaeda
\ninformation on your website, in your own country?<\/p>\n

It’s very hard to define. There is a lot of grey
\narea.<\/p>\n

We need to go into detail to understand.<\/p>\n

What is to be censored? That’s a very good
\nquestion. It’s a very good alert. Who is supposed to
\ndo the censorship? Just now we mentioned there should
\nbe a committee. They should involve government, NGO, IT
\ncompany, parents, teenagers, when you come to think
\nabout it, a teenager, they only have one vote. The rest
\nare all adults.<\/p>\n

They all have different interests.<\/p>\n

Teenager in whole process they are very active
\nparticipant.<\/p>\n

What I’m saying is that in the whole process, in the
\nwhole legislation process, in the whole process, how
\nmuch are you participating and how much are they
\nrespected?<\/p>\n

I’m not just talking about a simple consultation.
\nA consultation, the participation level is just social,
\nlow. What I’m saying is teenager should take a big part
\nand they have a big role to play in their committee.<\/p>\n

Just now, there is also mention, who is supposed to
\nrun the censorship? We mention should the government do
\nthis or website company or also school or parents?<\/p>\n

We didn’t go into detail. Should they be doing the
\ncensorship themselves? We should study and you should
\ninvestigate more in this area.<\/p>\n

What are their responsibilities?<\/p>\n

This is what I want to wrap up.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: thank you, Ken. OK, we go to the third
\ngroup. It’s the topic is digital divide.<\/p>\n

They do not have any writings on this, any article
\non this from the teenagers. We like to explore more
\nabout teenager position on this, on digital divide.<\/p>\n

>> : Vincent Ng. Thank you, Elaine.<\/p>\n

We would like to deliver what we have discussed in
\nIGF camp. The topic is digital divide. I would like to
\nshare a very memorable experience. It happened three
\nmonths ago. I was a volunteer and I play with some
\nyoung children and took pictures with them before
\nI leave. I asked the children, can you give me your
\nemail address or your Youtube address?<\/p>\n

The child has flush, his face was flush and he shied
\naway. His reply is, I have no computer at home.<\/p>\n

Very often, we think that everyone has a computer,
\neveryone has email accounts. This is exactly what’s
\nhappened. We are creating this digital divide.<\/p>\n

We look at some statistics, statistics department,
\nabout they cover about computer usage in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

Every fourth family, there is one without
\na computer.<\/p>\n

We look at this. In the three families, they have
\na computer. Are all the family member have the chance
\nto use the computer? There are reasons that it’s
\ncreating digital divide. One firstly is they do not
\nhave the chance to access the computer. They do not
\nhave knowledge to operate the computer. Then they have
\nno motivation. Of using the computer.<\/p>\n

What is sure about digital divide has create a lot
\nof problem.<\/p>\n

In a school situation, if we have to submit an
\nassignment, for someone who knows how to use the
\ncomputer or you have a computer in the home, you are
\nmuch more efficient than the other fellow students.<\/p>\n

Just now, I was in touch with this child. When you
\nfeel there is a gap between other people, how you
\nsocially and then their developmental, there is an
\nimpact.<\/p>\n

In the current day society, computer is nothing but
\na necessity.<\/p>\n

What I’m saying, if there is the poor children, they
\ndo not have a computer, they put them in a disadvantaged
\nposition.<\/p>\n

On the other hand, we hear parents who complain
\nabout the children always spend too much time on line
\nand there is also another problem, that digital divide
\nhas created.<\/p>\n

It is impossible for everyone to be on line all the
\ntime, 24 hours a day. But what I’m saying, we should
\nhave an equal opportunity for everyone to access the
\ncomputer, access the worldwide web.<\/p>\n

We are on equal footing.<\/p>\n

There should be more incentive to encourage people
\nwho doesn’t know how to operate the computer and you
\nneed the cooperation of a few organisations.<\/p>\n

>> : Martin Wong: I would like to talk about next how we can
\nnarrow the gap on digital divide.<\/p>\n

We have come up with some solution. The first one,
\na different stakeholder, NGO, firstly. They can,
\nthrough their network, through their website, network,
\nthrough their centres, how they can use it, how people
\ncan use the website, provides flexible hours to teach
\nthem to provide training.<\/p>\n

All these people who need this kind of service, low
\nincome earners and also look at the times and then the
\nplaces they take these courses, to make use of these
\ncommunity centres.<\/p>\n

The next point is in the business sector.<\/p>\n

Are they willing to take the first step? For
\nexample, they give us discount. Bids sector give us
\na discount in purchasing computers.<\/p>\n

Also, a discount programme on using the web.<\/p>\n

Thirdly is school. They can provide technical
\nsupport in this area. We have look at this slide. NGO,
\nthey provide free usage for computer. NGO with school,
\nthey provide free training to upgrade their skills.<\/p>\n

Then NGO working with the business sector to
\nincrease the number of computers.<\/p>\n

Then people who benefit from it, they have the
\nfreedom to choose the services.<\/p>\n

We have the responsibility to provide the software
\nand the hardware and at the end of the day, it’s the
\npeople who need help to benefit from these services,
\nthey have the choice.<\/p>\n

What’s the core, take care of the core problem?<\/p>\n

Who has the most digital divide in which community?
\nThey have more clear information within that community.<\/p>\n

We have to make better use of human resources,
\nsocial human resources.<\/p>\n

We have a second solution. There are few
\nstakeholders to be involved. Government, they are the
\ncentral co-ordinator.<\/p>\n

They have to coordinate with the NGO and the
\nbusiness centre.<\/p>\n

The business sector, they could create leasing of
\ncomputers and these people who benefit from it, they
\ncould pay a deposit, small deposit or sign some
\nguarantee document for longer term usage.<\/p>\n

Who will benefit from it? They have the right to
\nuse it, but they don’t own the computer.<\/p>\n

The government has the responsibility to take care
\nof the leasing process.<\/p>\n

There should be some monitoring process.<\/p>\n

If the people who benefit from this, they are
\nlong-term users, they are genuine long term user,<\/p>\n

I suggest we should sponsor them to ultimately get their
\nown computer.<\/p>\n

NGO, they are the people who know how to get
\ninvolved, get to know the people who need help, who need
\na computer.<\/p>\n

The government may not know how to do this, so that
\nI’m saying that there should be some coordination to
\nmatch the needs and the wants.<\/p>\n

Under my solution, No. 2, this is the most cost
\nefficient for the people who needs computer.<\/p>\n

They can get involved in a digital life.<\/p>\n

Also, under my solution, the business centre, they
\ncan achieve the CSR and they can make their brand more
\naware and they build a positive image in the community.<\/p>\n

And there is the budget they use to take care of
\nthis old computer and it is a good way. In fact,
\nbusiness sector is cutting cost, to make good use of
\nthis old computer.<\/p>\n

For the public sector, on their budget, their role
\nis not to supply the funding, but I want them to do more
\nis to be a co-ordinator.<\/p>\n

The NGO, they make good use of their network, the
\nlocal network, to reach out to the people who need
\na computer, who need to know more about the digital
\nworld.<\/p>\n

The last solution I have is to collect the old
\ncomputer. A lot of the computer are dumped. In a lot
\nof the cases, they can be reused, so I’m saying that
\nthey can work with the NGO for these old computer, they
\ncan remodel, upgrade them, so that they can be reused.<\/p>\n

Then these computers will be donated to certain
\nbodies.<\/p>\n

Some of the computers are outdated and not usable to
\ncertain people. But there are people in the society who
\nneeds a basic computer.<\/p>\n

They need to get involved with the digital world and
\nit is a good way to make good use of the overall social
\nresources.<\/p>\n

Also, this is more eco-friendly way.<\/p>\n

In conclusion, I would like to say, to narrow down
\nthe digital divide, many stakeholder has to work
\ntogether.<\/p>\n

I place more emphasis on the local community.<\/p>\n

We rely mainly on the community centre. Actually,
\nthis group, they will know about the digital divide.<\/p>\n

I’m saying that, the best way is to find a synergy
\nbetween where they mostly needed, the digital divide, in
\nthis community, and then to do something about it before
\nit becomes too big a problem.<\/p>\n

The first thing we relied on the community centre.<\/p>\n

Secondly, we like to create a foundation to work on the
\ndigital divide.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng. Everybody is using a computer. That is
\nvery hard for us to consider. Some people cannot be
\nvery efficiently and using the internet. They have very
\nconcrete and make a message that we are all one of the
\nplayers or participants in the internet cyber life and
\nhow are we going to narrow down the cyber gap.<\/p>\n

Now I’m going to pass to Ken.<\/p>\n

>> : Ken Chan: I heard the three groups is very good
\ninsight. The most impressive one is first of all, they
\nuse a lot of good IT technology, like flow charts, to
\nunderstand how this should be.<\/p>\n

Secondly, is freedom to choose their decisions. The
\nyoungsters or the person in need, whether they need
\na computer or not.<\/p>\n

In Europe also they take a second thought. We are
\nthen chasing for the newest version, the latest version
\nof computer.<\/p>\n

In our production, we are producing a lot of
\ndifferent kinds of electronics, wastage of garbage.
\nWhen we are thinking of something that can sustain or
\nsustainable and we are just throw away the old computers
\nand then just buy a new one or we can remove some of
\nthese old parts from these computers and remake it to
\na new product.<\/p>\n

So we take a message of recycling or recycling of
\nsome abandoned computer in stock or in the storage. So
\nfor some disadvantaged group, youngsters, then they can
\nuse these kind of resources. This is very positive.<\/p>\n

Secondly, the government needs to find out the
\nproblem and the issue and to solve the issue before
\nsomething happens. It’s not something to wait for,
\nsomething to wait for some disaster before they react.<\/p>\n

Instead, they should pay more attention, the society
\nis there, is there any such group or group of children
\nthey need a computer and they don’t have it and then
\nunderstand their needs and how they can help.<\/p>\n

This is a very important point as well.<\/p>\n

One more thing ised occasion.<\/p>\n

It is a very good suggestion, because there’s a lot
\nof technical help can be found and within this education
\nsystem, when I got in touch with a lot of school
\nprincipals, they did a lot of things for the students.
\nThey try to lengthen their school opening hours for
\nthese disadvantaged groups or they close the school
\ndoors until 10 in the evening, so they allow the
\nchildren to use the school computers to do their
\nhomework.<\/p>\n

This is a very good move that can help relevantly
\nsome disadvantaged groups students, so they can do their
\nhomework in school.<\/p>\n

Also, there is students, also teachers, stay after
\nschool to teach them how to use computers.<\/p>\n

Some students, maybe they have a lot of printers or
\ncomputers, because they can spare, because if you want
\nyour homework to be printed very nicely, you need a very
\nnice printer. Of course, a colour printing is better
\nthan mono colour, so when some of the students will want
\nto print some their reports, they can use the resources
\nfrom the school. This is something that within the
\neducation system, can help the children and can help the
\nstudents.<\/p>\n

There is a lot of space. There is different
\nstakeholders can play different roles to eliminate or
\nshorten the cyber gap.<\/p>\n

Then we can, when we consider making the proposal,
\nthen we can think of different stakeholders. That’s my
\nopinion.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng congratulations for the seven speakers.
\nThese three days discussion is very rich. Maybe I give
\nyou 10 minutes for questions from the floor, if not
\nenough, then later on, we have lunch hour or maybe we
\ncan discuss during lunch or with our participants.<\/p>\n

Any questions?<\/p>\n

>> Stephen Lau: Thank you. I am not going to raise
\na question. I just want to make a comment, especially
\nfor the cyber gap.<\/p>\n

First of all, within the three groups, you did
\na very good job. Because I think all the suggestions is
\nvery constructive. I would like to talk about cyber gap
\nand the western person say about economic issues, make
\nsome students or family cannot get into internet, your
\nidea is very positiontive to provide the hard ware,
\nsoftware, but still I would like to mention in
\nHong Kong, it is very diversified city. If you your
\ncyber gap is not only about from the economy problems,
\nbut there’s two groups.<\/p>\n

One is physically disabled person. Even though you
\ngive them the computer, give them training, if you don’t
\nhave software or maybe a blind person or a person who
\ncannot hear good and you don’t have an application for
\nthem, they cannot surf the internet.<\/p>\n

But at the same time, for this website, do they have
\nthe same applications to help them to read this message
\nor get the result? This is one point.<\/p>\n

Another area is diversity area. We are talking
\nabout fairness.<\/p>\n

Then we are talking about racial minority races,
\npeople from the south Asian countries.<\/p>\n

These are Hong Kong as well. Even though they can
\nserve the internet, still some for the government
\nwebsite, because it’s only in English and Chinese, but
\nsome just arrive in Hong Kong, they are not familiar
\nwith these two languages.<\/p>\n

Is there anything that can match or any other
\nlanguages, that can help them to get these services?
\nThis is the two examples I would like to share. Thank
\nyou.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: any feedback? Any answer?<\/p>\n

>> : Martin Wong: thank you very much for your comment and
\nidea. Stephen is very correct. Hong Kong is only
\n7 million population, but everybody is different. Some
\nmay be disabled, some of the minority races, people have
\ndifferent constraints. That’s why we strengthening on
\nthese, our solution is in the community helping hands
\nand the people from that community, they know very well
\nwhat is necessary and they understand very well, it’s
\nfor people who cannot read or blind people, they don’t
\nneed only, they’re not only computer, but something
\nelse.<\/p>\n

Before mine or the races is the barriers of
\nlanguages.<\/p>\n

And other constraints might not be economic, but how
\nwe can help them, also this help from the local
\ncommunity, that’s why it’s from different stakeholders,
\nfrom NGOs or schools or corporate, they are in the front
\ntiers.<\/p>\n

They are standing in the frontline, rather than the
\ngovernment.<\/p>\n

The government participation helps, but the
\ngovernment doesn’t understand the real need of the
\nsociety of that community.<\/p>\n

>> : Maybe there’s privacy for the three groups. Ricky has
\nsaid that you might not be sure about the privacy
\npolicy, because one will change, maybe the whole content
\nis very different. You have mentioned about white hat.
\nA lot of SME you hire some computer IT maintenance or
\nneeds about $8,000 for SME, if you hire a white hat, can
\nthey afford it? I have to say the teachers look at the
\nstudents Facebook and then give them pent, because they
\nhave intimate pictures. Then the students thinks this
\nmy private pictures.<\/p>\n

Make my own personal leakage, personal leakage.<\/p>\n

Personal information leakage. For censorship,
\na little bit, I think is very good, as a community, for
\nwhat kind of materials needs to be go under censorship
\nand who is going to select these community participants.
\nThis is a problem. As teenagers only have one vote, the
\nteenagers cannot — voice cannot be revealed. The most
\nimportant part, the guideline is how are you going to
\ndifferentiate the statute is pornographic or art and the
\nfreedom of, is it political or artist? What is for
\nNGOs, are they really FGO? Because within these
\nthree — real participant, NGO, then they have a lot of
\nbubbles. If all these suggestion pass their —<\/p>\n

>> : Kit Yeung. I am going to respond about the school.
\nI think this is not on line or off line. It is public
\nor private life. In private, I’m doing my own thing.
\nWhy they are going to interfere? Why the teacher comes
\nand interfere?<\/p>\n

The student’s private life, when you are not wearing
\nstudent clothes, uniforms and you dump garbage in the
\nstreet and all of a sudden your school teacher came and
\nsay you got penalty from the school. Would it be
\noveracting?<\/p>\n

>> : Ricky Kung: some SME only have one technician for their
\nIT infrastructure and if you are SME, then you have only
\ntechnician. I think the company doesn’t have the —
\nit’s not sincere enough to protect people’s privacy.
\nThat is my opinion for.<\/p>\n

I think they should find a way, because privacy is
\nsomething we concern if you, because of this little
\ninvestment and end up I’m not going to make business
\nwith you, then they suffer much.<\/p>\n

>> : Anson Lau: I think about censorship is my very early
\nsuggestion is CIO in Hong Kong officers, they can attend
\nthese committee and also the teachers for the teachers
\nassociation, he should be the chairman.<\/p>\n

For parents, I think there is parent teacher
\nassociation and I think it’s different. I think we need
\nto take closer look about it. It’s PTA.<\/p>\n

The chairman of the PTA is a very suitable person
\nfor students or children. They can use their elected
\nstudent association community for NGOs for you can have
\nKen, IT company or internet industry representative or
\nthe chairman of the association or councillor or Mr Tam
\nor Mr Mok, they can be a representative. This is my
\nearly response.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng. I think, Ken, anything?<\/p>\n

>> : Ken Chan: About censorship, when we think it’s very
\nsimple question, but actually it’s a very complicated
\nand difficult task. When you see in the Hong Kong, when
\nthe decision-making bureau, I cannot tell how hard they
\nwork. This is funny. Especially they are talking about
\npornographic materials, they felt very sick about it,
\nbecause the work is very heavy, the workload is very
\nheavy and every day in the media, a lot of materials,
\nthere is tonnes of it. If they have to censor
\neverything, one by one, which is impossible.<\/p>\n

But if we can use some tools or some reporting
\nsystem to simplify their workload, then they can go is
\nwhat is the suggestion has been made. This is some
\nthings I would like to mention.<\/p>\n

>> : Good morning. I have some question. First, for Kit,
\nabout privacy, about the school. If the intimate
\npictures posted on Facebook, about two years ago in
\nSichuan earthquake disaster and there’s a lady posted
\nand tell her that she’s not to give money to this relief
\nand then the school teachers gave her a very heavy
\npenalty.<\/p>\n

Should there be any policy that makes the teacher
\nthat what they can read, what they cannot read?<\/p>\n

Would that be no privacy or teachers are not able to
\nread from their Facebook?<\/p>\n

The second comment about privacy, for government
\nconsider as non-penalty or on in liability statement,
\nthat is a very clear, very easy to understand
\nguidelines, some of the members say it’s SME the
\nguidelines, if you’re clear, nobody is going to suffer.<\/p>\n

I would like to ask more than 5,000 words, are you
\ngoing to use it? Are you still using it? Will you not
\nusing the Facebook? It’s not the SME will scare away
\nthe consumers.<\/p>\n

But some people have censorship. It’s about the
\ncommunity. It’s easy to say, but very difficult to
\ncomply. Some people say it’s not strong representative
\nfor somebody, is very argue about somebody has religious
\ngroup. Somebody might reject it. And then so many
\nargument.S will be created. It might be, but the
\nscreening have to go under — undergo the law, but in
\nChina, they are using Google there. Tai are not
\nviolating the Chinese law. So they have to stop them.
\nBut Google should be — go under screen, then you are
\nsomehow supporting screening the last one, about
\nrecycling the computer.<\/p>\n

I have this habit, but one thing is to comment is
\nhow are you going to the incentive, some of the computer
\nvolunteer to fix these computers. Should the government
\ngive them some insevensive for this volunteer to work
\nabout the recycling of the computer. You keep on
\nsaying, you say NGO, NGO, because you are thinking the
\ncommunity stakeholders understand, you have the same
\nwith the government, always the community and
\nstakeholders, why can’t the government give some funding
\nto the NGOs? The NGOs say I have no funding. Because
\nat the end, then this cannot work out. Why can’t the
\ngovernment give some give the government —<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng: I think you shorten the questions —<\/p>\n

>> : Because some associations who have to recycle the
\ncomputers. But this has not come up. Your suggestion
\ncannot help the disadvantaged group.<\/p>\n

>> : I have a very short question. I’m talking about
\ndigital divide. Somebody doesn’t have computer. I’m
\na user right now. I’m still digital divided by the
\nother people.<\/p>\n

About my privacy. They use English. I use
\nFacebook. Even though I change it to other languages,
\nI go back to privacy terms, it’s still to English.<\/p>\n

It’s rather not — that is not available in Chinese,
\nbecause I don’t know English, then I have no idea,
\nbecause it’s about education and also ACTA. The privacy
\nterms.<\/p>\n

I can see that not only for Facebook, even for ACTA,
\nI cannot — under Wiki, I cannot search the Chinese,
\nonly the participant knows about it.<\/p>\n

When we look at it, we are now digital divided by
\nother people, because we don’t know their languages. So
\nwe don’t know about much about their privacy policy.<\/p>\n

But I think it’s privacy is not only a term, but
\nalso for the languages. I don’t know where we can go,
\nthen in somewhere we must know exactly what this means
\nfor education, I think can be conducted.<\/p>\n

But under education, there should be more creative.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng. Thank you very much. Your comment is
\nheard.<\/p>\n

We’ll let the panellists to respond to the question.<\/p>\n

>> : Martin Wong. Thank you for the first question. You
\nworry about the workload of the NGO. Our solution
\npropose that a lot of them relate to NGO. While
\nsolutions with NGO, they do not work alone. They have
\nother support. They have government funding and they
\nhave other funding.<\/p>\n

They also support disadvantaged group, physical
\ndisability group.<\/p>\n

We are not saying that can leave government out of
\nthis picture. What I’m saying that NGO are very key and
\ncrucial to the whole picture.<\/p>\n

We can better utilise the local resources, combining
\nwith government funding, it will achieve results.<\/p>\n

Also, we though that NGO needs the support of the
\ngovernment for many aspects. I believe the government
\nparticipation, the involvement, are very key, too.<\/p>\n

I’m not saying that community take the front line,
\ndoesn’t mean that government doesn’t need to be
\ninvolved.<\/p>\n

There’s no doubt about it. English is the language
\nused on the web.<\/p>\n

Secondly, to narrow down the digital divide, the
\nliteracy level is key. We have broadband, we have
\na computer and you don’t have any language ability. It
\ndoesn’t help.<\/p>\n

All these aspects, they compliment each other.<\/p>\n

We have to admit English is the most used language
\non the worldwide web. Because this is invented by the
\nEnglish speaking world. In the short run, we suggest
\nthat we increase the translation work on the website.<\/p>\n

In the Hong Kong context, we need to have nor
\ndocuments to be translated into Chinese and to create
\nChinese name website.<\/p>\n

>> : Kit young computer, all computer recollection, there is
\ncharacter sets always been doing the work.<\/p>\n

>> : Jerry Tam I like to comment about censorship. There is
\nsolutions. Initially, the government has to be involved
\nto come up with this committee. Another youth and
\nchildren’s group have to be involved. Parents and
\nteachers association. We need time. It takes time to
\nget involved, to get all these parties involved.<\/p>\n

We do not involve the children when we discuss about
\npornographic content.<\/p>\n

The committee is — the aim of the committee is to
\ntalk about direction. How to filter the web.<\/p>\n

Another aspect, there are representatives for youth
\nand children.<\/p>\n

I suggest that child protection policy and they are
\nindependent and the voice is heard.<\/p>\n

>> Edmon Chung: Your lunchtime is delayed enough.<\/p>\n

Last weekend, I participated on the youth forum.
\nI feel the whole camp, the very key thing about the
\ncamp, from different stakeholder point of view, to look
\nat issues on the internet.<\/p>\n

This report, I find it very interesting, why IGF is
\nsuccessful. We do not — the reason is that we do not
\ntalk about policies.<\/p>\n

Today is different. You talk about, at forum right
\nnow, you talk about mainly about policy, but you didn’t
\ncover a lot of what you have discussed over the weekend.<\/p>\n

IGF, the issue we discuss here are very
\ncontroversial.<\/p>\n

We do need participation, involvement from the
\ngovernment, commercial sector, NGO.<\/p>\n

I think why IGF is successful is we are not aiming
\nto come up with some concrete policy to go forward. The
\naim of it is to share and discuss issues, broadly.<\/p>\n

>> : Elaine Cheng. Thank you very much. We have to wrap up
\nthis session.<\/p>\n

Over lunchtime, we can continue our discussion
\nprivately.<\/p>\n

It is just the beginning of our discussions.<\/p>\n

>> : Now it’s lunchtime. Please proceed to the — as we are
\nrunning a little bit late, we will come back at 2:15.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Youth and Internet Governance ________________________________________________________________________ REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Youth and Internet Governance Hong Kong IGF 11:30-13:00, Friday 18 June 2010 Hong Kong DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live speaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may contain errors and mistranslations. An edited version of the realtime transcript which amends the … <\/p>\n

Continue reading “Hong Kong IGF \u2013 June 18th, 2010: Session 2”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"class_list":["post-373","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/373","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=373"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/373\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":563,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/373\/revisions\/563"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=373"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}