{"id":363,"date":"2010-06-21T03:24:14","date_gmt":"2010-06-21T03:24:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rigf.asia\/?page_id=363"},"modified":"2024-01-25T06:49:59","modified_gmt":"2024-01-25T06:49:59","slug":"hong-kong-igf-june-17th-2010-session-2","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/hong-kong-igf-june-17th-2010-session-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Hong Kong IGF \u2013 June 17th, 2010: Session 2"},"content":{"rendered":"

Access and Diversity<\/span><\/p>\n

________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Access and Diversity<\/p>\n

Hong Kong IGF
\n 11:00-12:30, Thursday 17 June 2010
\n Hong Kong<\/p>\n

DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live
\n speaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may
\n contain errors and mistranslations. An edited version of the
\n realtime transcript which amends the inherent errors, will
\n be posted later. LLOYD MICHAUX and APrIGF accept no
\n liability for any event or action resulting from the
\n contents of this transcript.<\/p>\n

________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

>> : Welcome back.<\/p>\n

The first panel discussion of the day is about
\naccess and diversity. May I now invite Mr John Fung,
\ndirector of Information Technology Resource Centre of
\nHKCSS to start the session and introduce the panel
\nspeakers for us.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: Welcome back, everybody.<\/p>\n

I’m John, the moderator.<\/p>\n

Our theme for this session is access and diversity.<\/p>\n

We are very lucky today to have four very
\ndistinguished speakers on the panel, all with very
\nunique and yet different backgrounds, to share with us
\ntheir observations and experience in their work.<\/p>\n

They have one thing in common in them and that is
\nthey are all working towards, in their own way, to help
\nconstruct a more accessible participatory internet, with
\ncontent diversified enough to reflect the diverse
\nculture, languages and needs in the global village.<\/p>\n

We are extremely happy and grateful to have them
\ntoday.<\/p>\n

As we have discussed before, all speakers, all
\nguests, can use Cantonese.<\/p>\n

We will have an English transcript. If you need
\nsimultaneous interpretation, you can get headsets from
\nthe registration.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: Without further ado, let me introduce our
\nfirst speaker, Mr Anthony Wong. He’s the president of
\nOLPC, Asian Pacific.<\/p>\n

>> Anthony Wong: Good morning, everybody.<\/p>\n

Thank you very much for me to have an opportunity to
\nspeak to you this morning.<\/p>\n

The subject of my presentation is on education.<\/p>\n

The title of my presentation is Education for the
\nDeprived.<\/p>\n

Actually, there are many different categories of
\ndeprived in this world and what I’m addressing is the
\nmost poorest children in this world.<\/p>\n

First of all, I would like to draw you to some
\nstatistics, that in this world, the opportunity for
\neducation is not equal.<\/p>\n

In fact, there are 2 billion children in the
\ndeveloping world that are not receiving education at all
\nor receiving very limited types of education.<\/p>\n

Actually, one in three in the developing world does
\nnot complete the fifth grade.<\/p>\n

This is causing a lot of problems in the world.
\nIndividual and societal consequences is great and it is
\nthe major reason for what we call the poverty spiral.<\/p>\n

A lot of people are talking about how to help the
\npoor, how to lift them out of the poor poverty spiral,
\nbut we believe education is the basic element to be able
\nto do that.<\/p>\n

A lot of governments are concerned about this
\nparticular scenario, this particular situation, but so
\nfar, I have not been able to see any government to be
\nable to take positive, effective action to solve this
\npoverty spiral problem, about the root cause of
\neducation.<\/p>\n

Definitely, standing still is not going to help.<\/p>\n

We believe it is time to rethink how we go about
\ndoing this.<\/p>\n

Actually, we did a quick survey that in developing
\ncountries, the amount of money allocated to education is
\nless than US$20 per year per pupil.<\/p>\n

This compares with what is being spent in the US, is
\nmore than US$7,500 per pu til per year.<\/p>\n

You can see that even if we double the spending or
\nredouble or even 10 times the spending in developing
\ncountries on education, it’s not going to help the
\nsituation.<\/p>\n

A lot of people are talking about building more
\nschools, having more teachers, buying more books, more
\nequipment. We do not think that will be sufficient.<\/p>\n

$20 is far too little a figure as a base to start.<\/p>\n

We have been to many remote places, places where the
\nonly way to get to is to walk for many hours or even
\na couple of days.<\/p>\n

In these places, even if there is a school, it is
\njust a simple cell shelter with little or no facilities
\nfor learning.<\/p>\n

Most teachers there are perhaps just one grade above
\nthose of the students and when you have situations like
\nthis, books are rare and totally inadequate.<\/p>\n

Most importantly, when you don’t have facilities and
\neven the teachers themselves are not good enough to
\nteach the students, for some basic education,
\nfundamentals, it will not help even if you build more of
\nthese kind of schools or give them more such teachers.<\/p>\n

For example, I have been to many schools in the
\nremote parts of China. The teacher does not know,
\ncannot speak English definitely and even Putonghua, they
\nare not very good.<\/p>\n

How can they properly teach the students the correct
\nthings to learn? Not to speak of learning about music,
\nart and other things.<\/p>\n

Knowledge to the outside world, in most of these
\nplaces, are totally blocked, so they don’t know anything
\nabout the outside world as well.<\/p>\n

We, in OLPC, first maybe I just briefly introduce
\nwhat OLPC stands for. It’s a nonprofit international
\norganisation called One Laptop Per Child.<\/p>\n

We are proposing a radical solution to this
\nparticular problem of education for the deprived
\nchildren.<\/p>\n

This particular organisation actually started from
\na group of professors and experts in MIT in the US.<\/p>\n

This group of professionals were actually involved
\nvery much in the invention of the internet and the use
\nof the internet.<\/p>\n

They are aware of the power of the internet and the
\npower of IT.<\/p>\n

So they come together more than 10 years ago and
\nproposed the concept that in this kind of very hard
\nconditions for learning, perhaps the best way is to use
\ntechnology, the best way is to use IT, the best way is
\nto use the power of the internet and that is how they
\ncome up with this particular solution and this is what
\nI’m showing you here, right now, a very inexpensive,
\nsmall computer, laptop called the XO laptop.<\/p>\n

They designed this computer, they started
\na nonprofit organisation, so this is totally created and
\nmanufactured at cost and definitely below cost, because
\na lot of the inventions, there are no royalties, nobody
\ncharge anything. They are all run by nonprofit and
\nvolunteers.<\/p>\n

What is the proposition? The proposition is that we
\nput all the things that a child needs to learn into this
\nsmall computer and distribute them to the remotest parts
\nof the world, the parts of the world where if OLPC does
\nnot exist, the children will never, ever, in their life,
\nhave access to a computer or to the internet. That is
\nthe criteria to which we want to deliver this kind of
\ncomputer.<\/p>\n

Because we are familiar with the situation, that
\nthis is not a particularly traditional type of
\nschooling, so we did not believe the teachers will be
\nable to help a lot in teaching the students, we are
\nproposing a concept of constructive learning. That is,
\nwe hope the children themselves will be able to learn by
\nusing this device themselves.<\/p>\n

Particularly, we want them to learn how to learn.
\nThen they will explore.<\/p>\n

XO computers are designed by not just IT experts,
\nbut also by a lot of education experts to allow children
\nto think about thinking in ways that are otherwise
\nimpossible and using it as a window to the world.<\/p>\n

A highly programmable tool for exploring and they
\nwill be open to unlimited knowledge and their own
\ncreative and problem solving potential.<\/p>\n

In fact, that is our mission, that is to create
\neducational opportunities for the most poorest children,
\nby providing them, each child, with a rugged, low cost,
\nlow power, connected laptop, with content, very
\nimportant, software designed for collaborative, joyful
\nand self-empowered learning. That is the OLPC mission.<\/p>\n

You have the real thing here. This is the
\nphotograph.<\/p>\n

Actually, this is not designed as a computer. We
\nwould not treat it as a computer. We just treat it as
\na device for the children to be able to use it to learn
\nand to explore knowledge.<\/p>\n

It was never designed as a computer, as such.<\/p>\n

Maybe just a little bit introduction of this toy
\nhere. You can see for those of you who haven’t seen
\nthis before, it is designed like a toy. Actually,
\ntarget age is 6 to 12 years old.<\/p>\n

It is designed to be able to be used in the most
\nharsh conditions, so it is waterproof, dust proof and
\ndrop proof. I have dropped this so many times, I’m not
\ngoing to do it again. Just throw it 1 metre and it
\ndoesn’t break. It uses very little power, 0.2 to 2
\nvolts. So a single charge on this computer can last
\nmore than 20 hours, so the children can use it for
\na whole day.<\/p>\n

It has two display modes. It can be read in bright
\nsunlight, because a lot of these places you have to do
\nlearning outside and this thing you can take outside and
\nyou can still see the screen very clearly.<\/p>\n

It has two rabbit ears here, which actually is
\na WiFi antenna, so it has full WiFi capability and
\nbecause of the external antennas this WiFi capability is
\nat least three times better than any laptop you have
\nhere in front of you.<\/p>\n

The sensitivity, I mean.<\/p>\n

The kids can use it actually in a mountain village
\nwe have tried this and the WiFi can go as far as 1
\nkilometre.<\/p>\n

This thing is also designed to be able to install
\n200 books in it, so it is an early E-book and each child
\nwill have at least 200 books installed in it, so they
\ncan use it and read, instead of having paper books
\ndelivered.<\/p>\n

Of course, with a USB and also WiFi, you can
\ndownload many more new books, if you want to.<\/p>\n

Most importantly is the content in it.<\/p>\n

So we are focusing on, as I said, this is not
\na computer, this is a learning tool. We don’t want the
\nchildren to learn computers. We want them to learn
\nthings inside this device.<\/p>\n

So we are not talking about computer literacy. We
\nare talking about learning, education. This is an
\neducation project, not a computer project.<\/p>\n

The young children don’t need to learn about IT,
\ndon’t even have to tell them this is a computer. This
\nis a learning tool.<\/p>\n

We believe the children learn best through doing
\nthings, so that actually a lot of our experiments shown
\nto be successful in proving that point.<\/p>\n

We put an emphasis on software tools for exploring
\nand expressing rather than instruction.<\/p>\n

We engage children in constructing their own
\npersonal interest and knowledge in providing tools for
\nsharing and critiquing these constructions will lead
\nthem to become learners and teachers.<\/p>\n

The interface, again, is designed for young children
\nlearning and a graphical means, we have very little
\ntext, most of the user interfaces in graphic form, so it
\nwill be universal.<\/p>\n

Because this is going to be distributed to many
\ndifferent parts of the world with different languages.<\/p>\n

All graphics.<\/p>\n

Laptops will give the learners an opportunity that
\nthey have never had before, such as a web browser, media
\nplayer, an E-book reader, as I showed you, that are
\notherwise difficult or impossible for these kind of
\nchildren to be able to access.<\/p>\n

They help them to build upon their active interest.<\/p>\n

There are programmes in it for writing, much like
\nyour Microsoft Word and composing, simulating,
\nexpressing, constructing, designing, modelling,
\nimagining, creating, critiquing, debugging and most
\nimportantly, this is unique among all the laptops and
\ndifferent children, a few kids having their own laptops,
\nthey can collaborate on the same programme, for example,
\nin drawing a picture, one kid on this side can draw part
\nof the picture and the other one can draw the other part
\nat the same time, so interface will allow that.<\/p>\n

In fact, the WiFi antennas here also operate like
\na mesh network, so even in the absence of an internet,
\nWiFi access, the computers themselves talk to each other
\nand can communicate with each other.<\/p>\n

We have one experiment in African village where the
\nkids live in different parts of the village and when
\nthey go home, the computers can talk to each other.
\nThat becomes the sole communication device in that
\nvillage.<\/p>\n

When one laptop is connected to an internet access,
\nthen this mesh network will bring the internet access to
\nall the computers in that wire mesh network, so it is in
\nfact a wireless lan network, so we just need one
\nconnection to enable the whole village.<\/p>\n

The laptop takes learners beyond instruction. If
\nyou have a chance to explore our programmes, the
\nsoftware, what we call activities, you will be able to
\nexperience that every single programme here is designed
\nlike a game and the children will play with that game,
\nbut each programme will allow the children to learn
\nsomething.<\/p>\n

Because this is internet connectable, so we not only
\nallow them to learn things installed in the computer, we
\nalso allow them to explore things outside the world, for
\nexample, there is Wikipedia installed here, so they can
\naccess Wiki. This is Wikipedia junior, so they can
\naccess the Wikipedia.<\/p>\n

Each school represents a learning hub.<\/p>\n

One interesting design in here is the school server.
\nIn each school, we install a school server, which is no
\nmore than a regular PC, just a few thousand Hong Kong
\ndollars. The school server will be able to monitor all
\nthe activities of all the XOs in that particular school
\nand even in the village.<\/p>\n

The teachers can communicate with the students via
\nthis school server and through the school server, we
\nwill be able to monitor the activities of each and every
\nkid using the computer.<\/p>\n

Of course, this way, because all the XOs can be
\nprogrammed to access the internet via the school server,
\nand via the school server only, so what they can see and
\nnot see can be filtered and firewalls can be built and
\nthis is very important, that we talk about maybe in
\nother sessions in this forum, that’s about protection of
\nchildren from undesirable things in the internet.<\/p>\n

So we have considered this, this school server can
\ndo what the school wants the children to read and not to
\nread.<\/p>\n

Very importantly is the supply of software and the
\nsupply of contents.<\/p>\n

If you buy a normal laptop, you have to install the
\noperating system, which cost you some money. You have
\nto upgrade it every now and then.<\/p>\n

Every single software is a source of cost.<\/p>\n

In the OLPC family, we employ free open source
\nsoftware from beginning to end. So it’s Linux operating
\nsystem and every single software is on open source and
\nthere are thousands of volunteers around the world
\nworking every day to develop upgrades and new learning
\nsoftware every day.<\/p>\n

These are all available for downloading free of
\ncharge.<\/p>\n

So once this device is delivered to a particular
\nchild in the remote areas, they will be supported by
\nthese thousands of volunteers throughout the world.<\/p>\n

Also content is being translated into the different
\nlanguages, the local languages, by the local volunteers.
\nThat is why we are always asking for support for local
\nvolunteers. So anybody interested, please talk to me,
\nif you want to be a volunteer.<\/p>\n

Some examples of what we can do. This is playing
\nmusic. This becomes a full music learning tool. We
\nhave actually so far there are four music programmes in
\nhere. For the most remote districts, there are no
\nmusical instruments, no teachers know music, how can the
\nkids learn music? Four programmes from understanding
\nmusic to becoming a composer. The children can
\nself-learn.<\/p>\n

You can see there this screen, there is some, all
\nthe musical instruments are simulated by this computer
\nin this programme.<\/p>\n

Actually, we have seen some school bands being
\ndeveloped using the XO. Each kid playing a different
\ninstrument.<\/p>\n

This is a drawing. The kids can produce many
\ndifferent kinds of computer drawing using the drawing
\nsoftware.<\/p>\n

This is chat. The kids can chat to each other, like
\nMSN chat. You can see that.<\/p>\n

Whether they have internet connection or not, these
\ncomputers themselves will connect themselves up
\nautomatically.<\/p>\n

This is a lot of the games that children can try
\nusing computer design. For example, we have E-toys and
\nE-toys is a very powerful drawing, multimedia drawing
\ntool and also we have scratch. Children can compose
\ntheir own multimedia. I don’t have time now, but if
\nanybody is interested, I can show you some of the
\ncartoons drawn by some of these 5 year olds or 10 years
\nolds. You can see the talents, even in those remotest
\nareas.<\/p>\n

This is scratch. Again, a very powerful tool for
\nchildren to learn multimedia presentations.<\/p>\n

This is some of the pictures that we we have taken
\nin some deployments. This is in Sichuan, the earthquake
\nin the stricken area. Right after the earthquake, we
\ndelivered 1,000 laptops to this place for the children
\nto restart their learning, even in very poor
\nenvironment.<\/p>\n

This is the school in the Ban Fong at that time.<\/p>\n

This is another deployment we have in a mountainous
\nvillage in Butan. Again, another LDC.<\/p>\n

Kids there, very happy with their XO laptop.<\/p>\n

They took it outside to take photos, doing all kinds
\nof things.<\/p>\n

This last picture, you can see me installing a WiFi
\nantenna in the headmaster’s house, which is outside the
\nschool. This is the way we get internet into this kind
\nof very, very remote areas, using a very powerful WiFi
\nsystem.<\/p>\n

With just a normal, not very broadband connection.<\/p>\n

Remember, when there is absolutely no internet
\nconnection at all, the low bandwidth connection makes
\na big difference compared with no connection.<\/p>\n

So broadband makes a little bit of difference
\ncompared with narrowband, but narrowband makes a huge
\ndifference compared with no connection.<\/p>\n

Providing the places even with narrowband
\nconnections, and the kids can have access to knowledge
\nthrough the internet.<\/p>\n

That is the important point.<\/p>\n

With that, I end my presentation here. Some of the
\nwebsites, if you are interested, please come to see our
\nwebsites and contact us if you are interested to help
\nus.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: Thank you, Anthony, for a very interesting
\npresentation.<\/p>\n

Our next speaker is Dr Michael Gurstein.
\nDr Gurstein is a long time researcher on digital divide,
\nespecially the telecentre movement.<\/p>\n

He has travelled quite extensively and has been
\nacting as a consultant and advisor to NGOs and
\ngovernments.<\/p>\n

He’s currently executive director of the Centre for
\nCommunity Informatics Research, Development and
\nTraining.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: Thank you, John.<\/p>\n

When John invited me, I was really delighted to be
\nable to come back to Hong Kong. Then I asked him what
\nhe wanted me to talk about and he said he wanted me to
\ngather experience or present experience on the
\ntelecentres globally that might be of interest here in
\nHong Kong.<\/p>\n

After talking with John and hearing presentations,
\nthe first thing I wanted to say is that there is much
\nthat the world can learn from Hong Kong in these areas.<\/p>\n

I have titled my talk, which is, I have adapted the
\ntalk from other talks that I have given elsewhere on
\ntelecentres, but I have titled my talk Bridging the Last
\nQuintile. That is bridging the last 20 per cent.<\/p>\n

I think that is very important and as an outsider,
\nI would like to perhaps reflect a bit on that.<\/p>\n

In other parts of the world, in the developed
\ncountries in any case, once a country reaches 60 to 75
\nper cent, they pretty well raise their hands in
\na victory celebration and they turn their priorities to
\nsomething else.<\/p>\n

In fact, in Canada, where I’m from, the most recent
\ninformation on internet use showed a slight decline in
\ninternet use year on year.<\/p>\n

That was passed, I would say, in the public media
\nand in the public policy sphere with a shrug. There
\nreally was little attention. It was seen as a bit of
\na curiosity, but it wasn’t seen as being something that
\nshould become a focus for public policy attention.<\/p>\n

It seems to me that Hong Kong, by focusing its
\nattention on bridging the last quintile, the last
\n20 per cent, is really showing I think remarkable
\nleadership in this area, because the challenge — the
\nfirst 60 or 75 per cent, I won’t say it’s easy, but once
\nthe infrastructure is in place, the applications and
\nuses, the Facebooks, the eBays, the Amazons, are
\nsufficient to engage the attention and the interest and
\nthe involvement of most of the socially included
\npopulation.<\/p>\n

The young who go to school, the adults who are
\nworking, the seniors who have extensive family
\nconnections and so on.<\/p>\n

The first 65, 70 per cent in a developed country is
\nsomething that can almost — once the infrastructure is
\nthere, can almost be taken for granted.<\/p>\n

By it’s the last 20 per cent or the last, in the
\ntelecommunications world, they talk about the difficulty
\nof the last mile.<\/p>\n

I think here taking on the challenge of the last
\nsocial mile, the last quintile, I think is an extremely
\nimportant advance in thinking.<\/p>\n

Because it’s the last 20 per cent who perhaps can
\nbenefit the most from engagement with the internet and
\nthe opportunities and the communications capabilities
\nand the information access capabilities that the
\ninternet presents.<\/p>\n

Because as I said, earlier, it’s the last
\n20 per cent who suffer the most from the disabilities
\nthat come with social inclusion or who are socially
\nincluded, who are socially excluded, because of their
\ndisabilities.<\/p>\n

So by focusing on these, and making it a policy
\npriority, to develop strategies for including this
\npopulation, I think it’s demonstrating a wisdom,
\na social wisdom and commitment that I think is something
\nthat we outside of Hong Kong can learn something very
\nsignificant.<\/p>\n

What I have decided to talk about is bridging the
\nlast quintile. Perhaps I have some insights that may be
\nuseful, but I’m extremely interested to learn from you
\nthe strategies that you are undertaking to in fact make
\nthose advances.<\/p>\n

I think this is fairly obvious to all of you, but
\nit’s perhaps worth going over again. Information and
\ncommunications technologies.<\/p>\n

Well, of course, they are the internet and they are
\nthe various kinds of digital and digitally enabled
\ntechnologies, the whole range of the technologies
\nincluding the software, that allows for the kind of
\ncommunications, action at a distance, information
\nmanagement, information retrieval, that has enabled,
\nthat is acting as an enormous economic enabler of
\ntransactions, of digital workflows, of managing
\ninternational supply chains that in fact have
\ntransformed the way in which the economy works and the
\nway in which people work within the economy.<\/p>\n

In the last figures I saw in the United States,
\nwhich I would be interested to know what the comparable
\nfigures in Hong Kong, were that something like
\n80 per cent of all working population interfaces with
\na screen at some point during their working life and
\nthat’s a huge percentage of the entire working
\npopulation.<\/p>\n

But ICTs are also social enablers. The integration
\nand the use of something like the social software,
\nsomething like Facebook, and I think perhaps even more
\nimportantly, something like skype, as an enabler of
\ncommunication, as a bridger of divides, as a linker of
\nfamilies and friends, as a creator of virtual
\nconnections and virtual organisations, I think is
\ntransforming the way in which we can live our lives in
\nsociety.<\/p>\n

I talked this morning via skype with my 88 year old
\nmother, who is very proud that she has now installed
\na skype video and she’s sitting there, she dresses up to
\ndo her skype and so she’s talking to me, but more
\nimportantly, she’s talking to her grandchildren, one of
\nwhom is in Shanghai, another of whom is in New York, and
\nmaintaining intensive social connections. When I was 30
\nor 40 years ago, when I was travelling as well, the
\ndistance and the social cost and the financial cost of
\ndistance was enormous.<\/p>\n

If I was abroad, it was costing me tens of dollars,
\noccasionally hundreds of dollars, to communicate.<\/p>\n

Now it’s costing nothing or cents a minute.<\/p>\n

That’s bridging and integrating families, friends,
\norganisations, not for profits, as well as for profit
\norganisations.<\/p>\n

ICTs are also becoming a tremendous cultural
\nenabler.<\/p>\n

The role that ICTs are playing in supporting and
\nrecreating in some cases, languages, speech, integrating
\nproviding the opportunity for the recreation of cultural
\ngroups, I was recently in Borneo in an extremely remote
\npart, and with some people who a generation ago were
\nnomads.<\/p>\n

They had two — they have just got the internet,
\nthis last six months and they have two applications.
\nAnybody guess what the first two applications are that
\nthey’re using?<\/p>\n

The first one is Facebook. Why? Because they, as
\na group, young people were taken together from a number
\nof different places, put together in a setting and they
\nlearned to use the internet together and now they’re
\ndisbursed back to their villages and they’re using the
\ninternet for mutual support and Facebook is that
\nplatform.<\/p>\n

The second application is blogging.<\/p>\n

Why blogging? Because their lands are being
\nencroached on by foresters and even though their
\nlanguage does not have a formal written script, they are
\nusing blogging as a way of communicating or attempting
\nto communicate with a larger world.<\/p>\n

The third application is Youtube, because they’re
\nusing that as a way further of communicating their
\nmessage.<\/p>\n

ICTs are this tremendous cultural and organisational
\nenabler and they’re also, as we know, personal enablers.<\/p>\n

I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for ICT and the
\ncommunication and the virtual friendship and virtual
\ncommunication that I’ve had over the years with John —
\nwith a real friend. A virtually enabled real
\nfriendship. Thank you, John. Much better.<\/p>\n

ICTs are also instruments of transformation.
\nEconomic transformation. The kind of economy that we
\nsee today would not be possible without ICTs.<\/p>\n

Organisational transformation. Certainly perhaps
\nthis meeting might have been possible without ICTs, but
\nthe Internet Governance Forum, which just took place,
\nwhich had representation from 20 countries, 25
\ncountries, certainly would not have been possible
\nwithout information and communications technologies.<\/p>\n

It’s also the basis for social transformation, for
\nproviding the opportunities for multi-generational
\ncommunications, for managing relationships over
\ndistance, for cultural transformation and for personal
\ntransformation.<\/p>\n

The real challenge is to make all of these available
\nto all. If we are talking about — that’s, again, the
\nsignificance of the last 20 per cent, the last quintile,
\nis because the last 20 per cent are those who do not
\nhave access to all of these opportunities for personal
\nenablement, for economic enablement, for cultural
\nenablement, for personal transformation, for cultural
\ntransformation, for social transformation, and for
\ninclusion.<\/p>\n

That’s the challenge.<\/p>\n

What I do with community informatics and that’s what
\nwe do. Our concern is with how to use information
\ntechnology to support people at the local level, at the
\ngrassroots level.<\/p>\n

I guess we start from the principle that people live
\nin communities and perhaps the best way to begin that
\nprocess of transformation, especially amongst the
\nphysically excluded, the geographically excluded or the
\nsocially or economically excluded is by building on the
\ncommunity processes that already exist.<\/p>\n

What we do is we work with community based planning,
\ndesigning and implementing ICTs in an Information
\nSociety, but looking at that from the bottom up, from
\nthe basis of those who are living in their communities.<\/p>\n

So we are concerned with moving beyond the ideas of
\nthe digital divide, which is I think a notion that
\nprobably shouldn’t exist — it’s too simple and it’s
\nmisleading a notion, because it’s not just a digital
\ndivide, often it’s a disability divide or it’s an
\neconomic divide or it’s a cultural divide or
\na linguistic divide and the digital divide is simply one
\namongst a whole set of other divides.<\/p>\n

The challenge is to deal with all of those divides,
\nif you want to achieve inclusion, digital inclusion or
\nother kinds of inclusion, and so we talk about effective
\nuses. That is how to achieve, how to ensure that those
\nwho are otherwise excluded can find the kind of uses
\nthat make sense to them that are of value to them, where
\nthey are, and how they live, but that all of the
\nsupports that are required to help them bridge all of
\nthe other divides, not simply the access divide, but the
\nskill divide, the education divide, the literacy divide,
\noften the physical disability divide, that those kinds
\nof supports are all available to ensure that someone not
\nsimply has access to uses, but also can make effective
\nuse of the technology and make use of the technology in
\neffective ways.<\/p>\n

To me, and I guess to the kind of people that I work
\nwith, that’s the challenge.<\/p>\n

Community informatics is concerned with what we call
\neffective use.<\/p>\n

Telecentres.<\/p>\n

I think many of you work in telecentres, but perhaps
\ntelecentres by a different name. Telecentres are public
\naccess points, places within a community or community
\nsites where people can come together to learn about and
\nuse the information, information technology, to access
\nthe internet.<\/p>\n

There’s a big discussion going on now, I guess, in
\nthe kind of, amongst my colleagues and the people that
\nI work with, about whether or not in the age of mobile
\ntelephones, whether you still need telecentres.<\/p>\n

I have a bias because I work with telecentres, but
\nmy feeling is that you do. That there are processes
\nthat happen when people get together in a geographical
\nspace, where people can meet face to face, where people
\ncan do the kind of multiple activities and integrate
\nmultiple sources of information and multiple media into
\none activity, into one use, that isn’t at this point
\npossible in a mobile telephone environment or even the
\nmost advanced mobile communications environment.<\/p>\n

I think that, in some ways, that kind of facility,
\nthe public facility, the community facility, where the
\ninternet is one amongst a number of community resources
\nthat are available, will, in the context of the socially
\nexcluded, the context of the last quintile, will always
\nbe necessary.<\/p>\n

Because it’s there where people can achieve not
\nsimply digital inclusion, but also the broader base of
\nsocial inclusion, which I think is the ultimate goal.<\/p>\n

Telecentres, it’s relatively easy and I think that
\nprobably in a city like Hong Kong, the technical
\ninfrastructure is now in place.<\/p>\n

I think that, from what I understand from John,
\nthrough the HK social services, that the social
\ninfrastructure is brought into place.<\/p>\n

That’s a very powerful and important element, the
\nprovision of the technical literacy, the training, the
\nsupport structures for those who are otherwise either
\nphysically unable to access the technology, or socially
\nor in terms of their skill level, unwilling or unable to
\naccess the technology.<\/p>\n

There is need for an organisational management
\ninfrastructure, a framework within which a telecentre
\ncan operate, that allows it to have the kind of
\napplications and uses that will be engaging to the last
\n20 per cent.<\/p>\n

Integration of that into broader networks, for
\nmutual support, for responding to very specialised
\nrequirements.<\/p>\n

I have just been doing some work in Malaysia,
\nthinking about how to respond to the needs of the
\ndisabled in the context of information technology.<\/p>\n

What’s clear there is that every telecentre can’t
\nhave all of the assisted devices that might be required,
\nbut that if you pool the requirements of multiple
\ntelecentres, then they all can have those kinds of —
\nthey can all have access to those kinds of assisted
\ndevices.<\/p>\n

In order to do this, you have to have this
\noverarching organisational and management
\ninfrastructure.<\/p>\n

Then, of course, you need the applications and uses.<\/p>\n

This is, I think, the interesting area, is by
\nthinking about in the context of what you’re doing here
\nin terms of the last quintile, the last 20 per cent, is
\nbreaking that down into the various user groups and
\nidentifying within those groups, the specific areas of
\nneed, but more importantly, the specific areas of want,
\nof requirement within those.<\/p>\n

What is it? What kind of applications will motivate
\npeople who aren’t currently interested to become
\ninvolved in the — to become users of the internet.<\/p>\n

Certainly I know, for my mother, it was access to
\nher grandchildren and that, for many seniors is a very
\nimportant area.<\/p>\n

For others, it will be other areas. It may be
\neconomic. It may be opportunities for employment and so
\non.<\/p>\n

Community informatics, beginning from a base,
\nlooking at the technology from the bottom up, has
\nlearned a few lessons that might be of interest to
\ntelecentres.<\/p>\n

The bottom up community based strategies work best.
\nWhat that means is that engaging those who will be the
\nend users in defining and developing the specific
\napplications, probably works best in terms of the
\nlong-term sustainability of those applications.<\/p>\n

The global experiences that telecentres have
\na problem and many, many agencies, many government
\nagencies, many large NGOs basically abandoned
\ntelecentres. They have put the money in, you know, they
\nhave found that they weren’t successful and they moved
\non to something else.<\/p>\n

The observation that I would make and I read a lot
\nof PhD theses on this, is that the problem isn’t in the
\nmodel, it isn’t in the operation, the problem is in the
\nmodel of implementation.<\/p>\n

If the telecentre is put in from the outside, is
\nmanaged as a government operation, where the programming
\nis designed by someone in Geneva or New York or Nairobi
\nor Johannesburg and then put into at the local level,
\nthen as soon as the funding ceases, is no longer
\navailable, then the community in which this has been
\nplaced, no longer has much interest, no longer has much
\ninterest in the operation.<\/p>\n

They have not had any ownership in its development,
\nin its design, in the identification of the application,
\nin its operation, and when the funding goes, like a lot
\nof these programmes, it disappears.<\/p>\n

But in those areas, where the process has been one
\nof engaging the community, on a long-term basis, in
\nworking with them, in giving the community the ownership
\nof the operation and the long-term management of the
\noperation, the long-term accountability for the
\noperation, that’s when these survive. They survive on
\nthe — there is a series of horror stories, of
\ntelecentres that were parachuted in at huge expense, but
\nwhere the operation didn’t fit in with the local
\nculture. The managers were brought in from the outside.
\nThe operation didn’t accept local practices. They were
\nseen as being the vehicles of, the political vehicles of
\noutsiders.<\/p>\n

Policy plays a key role. Again, I think that the
\npolicy is articulated by the Hong Kong Government is
\na very interesting one, which is to see the necessity of
\nbridging the last quintile and to identify the ways of
\ndoing that.<\/p>\n

But the actual operation, the actual process of
\nimplementation, is one that is probably best left to you
\nfolks and not to someone in a government office.<\/p>\n

I think research plays a significant role. I’m
\na researcher, so I would say that.<\/p>\n

Research plays a significant role by providing
\na feedback mechanism, by providing a way for linking
\nwhat’s happening on the ground into the policy level
\nwhere the funding comes, by helping people on the ground
\nto understand what it is they’re doing, what it is that
\nthey’re doing successfully, and what it is that isn’t
\nquite so successful.<\/p>\n

It’s a way of gaining distance from what they do and
\nlearning from practice.<\/p>\n

Partnerships are essential and partnerships are
\nessential because no single group, no group has all of
\nthe skills. No group has all of the knowledge. No
\ngroup is able to operate completely on its own.<\/p>\n

So the bringing in of various skills and knowledge
\nbases and resources, at the local level, within
\na context, a crucible of local management is very
\ndesirable.<\/p>\n

Technology matters.<\/p>\n

Mostly because people like me say technology doesn’t
\nmatter, but in fact the technology does matter. Making
\nsure the systems work. Making sure that it’s properly
\nmaintained. Making sure that viruses are looked after.
\nMaking sure that you’ve got proper communications
\ncapability and I know John I’m sure does that extremely
\nwell, but that’s not an unimportant task and something
\nthat’s something that should be looked after.<\/p>\n

Stakeholders in telecentres are the practitioners,
\nthe policymakers and I think the researchrs.<\/p>\n

First generation telecentres were concerned with
\naccess, with familiarisation, with training and ad hoc
\napplications.<\/p>\n

They were general purpose community places. Next
\ngeneration telecentres, which is I think where we are
\nnow in areas where there is a renewed interest in
\ntelecentres, have to do with their applications are
\nfocused, which means that they are concerned with
\nspecific kinds of end user requirements.<\/p>\n

You will have a telecentre that’s focused on the
\nrequirements of senior citizens and will be designed
\nphysically, will have the software, will have the
\napplication that’s concerned with senior citizens.<\/p>\n

Another network may be concerned with people living
\nin low income housing. People with certain kinds of
\nphysical disabilities. That’s important, because the
\nphysical design, the software design, the programming,
\nby that I mean the agenda setting within the telecentre,
\nshould be focused on supporting those particular
\napplications and engaging those particular individuals
\nand providing them with the outcomes that they find are
\nnecessary.<\/p>\n

I’m just about done here.<\/p>\n

Bridging the last quintile, the last 20 per cent.<\/p>\n

I think that’s really what you’re doing here.
\nI really congratulate you for doing that, which is
\nrecognising the need to define and develop quintile
\nspecific applications and uses.<\/p>\n

That is to recognise that the last 20 per cent is an
\nenormous challenge. It’s probably the much greater
\nchallenge than the first 80 per cent.<\/p>\n

And requires a very significant public commitment
\nand priority.<\/p>\n

I think in business, they always say it’s the first
\n80 per cent is the cheapest and easiest, but if you want
\nthe last 20 per cent, that’s where it becomes more
\nexpensive and that’s certainly the case here.<\/p>\n

The delivery of the programme as close as possible
\nto the end user and with as much involvement of the end
\nuser as possible.<\/p>\n

Because if the end user knows — that it’s the end
\nuser’s who know what they need, who know what will
\nmotivate them, who know the kinds of objectives and
\nconcerns that are significant.<\/p>\n

The technical and physical infrastructure to support
\nthe last quintile applications.<\/p>\n

The sites, the accessability to specific software.
\nThe social infrastructure to support the last quintile
\napplications, to support the technical literacy,
\ntraining and support specific to that particular group
\nwithin the last quintile.<\/p>\n

The senior citizen, the low income individual, the
\nlow literacy, persons with low literacy level, the
\nperson with physical disability. So developing the
\ntraining and applications specific to those people.<\/p>\n

Then the organisational and management
\ninfrastructure to support last quintile applications.<\/p>\n

I think that’s it and that’s me and thank you very
\nmuch.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: In the interests of time, I need to introduce
\nour next speaker very quickly. Mr Clarence Tsang is
\nDeputy Director of Christian Action. He’s going to
\nspeak a little bit about content generation for
\nmulticultural purposes.<\/p>\n

>> Clarence Tsang: Thank you for the introduction and
\nI think I’m not going to make my presentation long, so
\nyou can have an earlier lunch.<\/p>\n

I’m not going to speak in English as my English is
\nnot good enough. I’ll make it in Chinese, in Cantonese.
\nSo grab your headphones if you need to do so and I’ll
\ngive you one or two minutes.<\/p>\n

I work in Christian Action. We have done research
\non the minority groups, on their jobs.<\/p>\n

I guess I have been in this charity for more than so
\nmany years. I guess that’s why John invite me to this
\npresentation. Even the web of my organisation, we
\nhaven’t enough, but I don’t think I will make it long
\nfor my presentation today.<\/p>\n

I have to raise two questions. The first one what
\nis multicultural content? The second one is
\ndisadvantaged group. What is the need of these
\ndisadvantaged groups?<\/p>\n

Multicultural content means multi-language.
\nI guess, most of the web pages are bilingual. I have
\ncaptured some screenshots of many websites. This is the
\nPRC’s official website. You can see that I have
\nhighlighted. You can see that the languages offered are
\nChinese, Chinese traditional and Chinese simplified, but
\nthese are the only versions.<\/p>\n

But we have so many minority groups, say guys from
\nTibet, people from Mongolia, they use many localised
\ndialects. So is this enough?<\/p>\n

It’s very interesting.<\/p>\n

Next slide.<\/p>\n

This is pretty interesting.<\/p>\n

It is US statistics, a federal website. I saw there
\nare 87 languages on the welcoming website page.<\/p>\n

I’m just trying to click into one of the languages
\ndisplayed. Most of them are fully translated.<\/p>\n

But then some of them are not fully translated.<\/p>\n

The key things are there.<\/p>\n

On top, furthermore, I look at the Chinese version,
\nCantonese version, coming back to Hong Kong, what I say
\nthe US federal websites are pretty good, pretty clear.<\/p>\n

Looking at our website, there are only two
\ntranslations, like simplified and long version.<\/p>\n

I wonder who is responsible for this.<\/p>\n

You should take more notice of this.<\/p>\n

Currently in Hong Kong, we think there are 200,000
\nFilipinos helpers, Indonesian helpers working in
\nHong Kong and there are other Sri Lankan, Pakistani and
\nthere are many other races who are currently working in
\nHong Kong.<\/p>\n

50,000 of minority groups, from Southeast Asian
\ncountries.<\/p>\n

Perhaps we look at this kind of population spread
\nmixed, well, what we have done is just not compared to
\nwhat the US has done.<\/p>\n

We are looking into this topic generating
\nmulticultural content for the disadvantaged group.
\nI think the government has to take the lead to take
\nsome — to do more.<\/p>\n

This slide, well, besides multi-languages, it is
\nimportant, but not sufficient.<\/p>\n

Just that we have multi-languages and we have
\nEnglish as the key language.<\/p>\n

A lot of times, the translation or it doesn’t fit
\nthe culture of the other races. What I’m saying is that
\nwe have to consider the religious, educational and
\npolitical background to fully incorporate into our
\nsociety and so on.<\/p>\n

I’ll give you another example.<\/p>\n

This is our HSBC website.<\/p>\n

I’m just giving a display on that.<\/p>\n

What you can see is Chinese and English. Once you
\nenter, once you enter into HSBC site, you are loaded
\nwith English version. It is totally a western style
\ndisplay.<\/p>\n

I’m not saying that it’s no good. It is more for
\nexpat and basically English speaking community.<\/p>\n

The foreign worker and the minority are not — what
\nthey are looking for.<\/p>\n

I don’t think any of the bank in Hong Kong, they are
\nspecifically designed for perhaps I say Indonesian
\nhelper working in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

I don’t see such a bank in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

Look at another example, CLP, China Light & Power.<\/p>\n

Hong Kong power electricity supplier.<\/p>\n

They have Chinese and English translation only.
\nThey have only two languages.<\/p>\n

But without any support for minority groups in
\nHong Kong.<\/p>\n

If we look at the next page, we look at some
\ndisadvantaged group, what they need on the internet.<\/p>\n

What is exactly multicultural content on the
\nwebsite.<\/p>\n

We are talking about disadvantaged group, what they
\nneed, what they really need. The first one is
\nemployment, welfare and educational needs.<\/p>\n

A lot of these people new I’ll arrived in Hong Kong,
\nthe immigrants from China, from other south eastern
\nAsia, even though they speak from perhaps from China,
\neven they speak Chinese, the language, but then the
\ncultural habits, the social environment are different.<\/p>\n

There are a lot of local dialogues, local slogan,
\nlocal that they might not be able to understand.<\/p>\n

The first thing is very needed is the employment.<\/p>\n

Then their social security, how they can access the
\ngovernment social security, the welfare and the other
\nthing is also educational. The education side.<\/p>\n

Young children and then how they get into school,
\nI would say the minority groups in Hong Kong, they
\nalways face these problems.<\/p>\n

We have a lot of cases regarding this area. We have
\nmany, many cases.<\/p>\n

I think the Labour Department in Hong Kong, Social
\nSecurity Department in Hong Kong, they have to do more
\nin this area.<\/p>\n

Secondly, utilities and facilities.<\/p>\n

This is very vital, a daily necessity.<\/p>\n

You take a ride on the MTR, you pay for your
\nelectricity bills.<\/p>\n

I notice that the minority group they don’t go out
\na lot. They stay in the house. Because they don’t know
\nhow to take a bus. They don’t know where, how to get
\nfrom A to B.<\/p>\n

Also, when they get on to the internet, they
\ncouldn’t find any information in their language.<\/p>\n

Thirdly, rights and responsibilities.<\/p>\n

The foreign domestic worker, a lot of times they do
\nnot know their rights.<\/p>\n

Under the labour law, what they are protected, how
\nthey are protected, what their rights, minority groups
\nin Hong Kong, they do not understand they’re citizens,
\ntheir responsibility.<\/p>\n

The language is a big barrier to this group of
\npeople.<\/p>\n

The last thing is social network. Hong Kong, it is
\neasy for Hong Kong people to get involved in a social
\nforum. Looking at those minority groups in Hong Kong,
\nthey do not have a public social forum to let them say
\nwhat they want to say, support each other and then for
\ninformation exchange.<\/p>\n

For the last generation to pass information to the
\nnewly arrived in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

I try to log-on to the web and search for this
\ninformation. There is none.<\/p>\n

I think we should provide more information in this
\nregard.<\/p>\n

I have some recommendations.<\/p>\n

First, government to promote multi-language and
\nmulticultural content on the internet.<\/p>\n

The government should take the lead to do this.<\/p>\n

For example, the Labour Department and the
\nImmigration Department, I wonder could they add more to
\ntheir website with their languages, with more languages.<\/p>\n

The foreign domestic helpers, I don’t mean a full
\ntranslation, but at least there are — the key points on
\ntheir rights and responsibility. When they first landed
\nin Hong Kong, they have certain information, about the
\nbasic laws and about their employment, at least some
\nbasic information on the website.<\/p>\n

Also, the next thing, NGO should do more in this
\nregard, but one thing is that we have limited resources,
\nlimited funding.<\/p>\n

We propose to set up more websites to give out
\ninformation on the internet about NGOs, giving
\ninformation to multicultural content on their website.<\/p>\n

Thirdly, government sponsor the set up of public
\nforum for multi-races communication.<\/p>\n

Besides government, we need more sponsors to sponsor
\nwebsite for multi-languages.<\/p>\n

I think that’s a good way. Also, it might be a good
\nsocial enterprise in the longer run.<\/p>\n

Number 4, corps and public you titles should
\nconsider CSR an element for generating multicultural
\ncontent for the disadvantaged group.<\/p>\n

We are talking about a lot of CSR. We haven’t
\nexactly focused on this area. I suggest Hong Kong
\nCouncil for Social Services, they should take the lead.<\/p>\n

I suggest to label the caring company, also this is one
\nof the criteria, whether they have multi-languages,
\nmulticultural content on the website.<\/p>\n

Fifth, there is another one. Not very complicated.
\nWe just create an enquiry page on the web, so that they
\ncan have question and answer on the website.<\/p>\n

Then it’s easier to administer, because they can —
\nthe organisation can outsource the translation to
\noutsider and then give the feedback on the website. So
\nit’s not too costly.<\/p>\n

At least just an enquiry page.<\/p>\n

I suggest this is not very costly, but very
\nefficient way to provide information, at least give them
\na platform, give these people the platform to have Q and
\nA, to have the question and answers.<\/p>\n

Lastly, conclusion.<\/p>\n

I think it’s not only — my idea is not, is only
\njust to tell you to spend, but then in the longer run,
\nI think it’s a good investment to incorporate minority
\ngroups, incorporate them into the society, integrate
\nthem into society, it is in the long run, it is a good
\nway.<\/p>\n

Secondly, to get different stakeholders involved.<\/p>\n

Foreign domestic helper, minority groups, gather
\ntheir views together, so I think it is a good image for
\nthe corporate, after all.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: The next speaker is Mr Chong Chan Yau.
\nMr Chong is visually impaired and he is the President of
\nthe Hong Kong Blind Union. He’s going to speak to us
\nabout accessibility and give us an update.<\/p>\n

>> Chong Chan Yau: Thank you. Thank you very much, because
\nof we are running late, so I’m going to be very brief to
\nmake the point.<\/p>\n

Web accessibility as defined by, as required by
\nblind persons, means that with assisted devices, we can
\naccess web contents, fill in forms, even be able to
\nunderstand even captions from videos and so on.<\/p>\n

I am representing today the Hong Kong Blind Union,
\nso I’m going to introduce a web accessibility campaign
\nwe are going to launch.<\/p>\n

Just to start with, IT provides a lot of
\nopportunities. It can also be a challenge. So it is
\na double edged sword.<\/p>\n

It depends on how we structure the technology and
\nmake sure that the benefits outweigh the challenges.<\/p>\n

I am using basically a device with a Braille display
\nand I can access the web with this display.<\/p>\n

So I want to do a very short demonstration.<\/p>\n

Bear with me.<\/p>\n

What I’m touching with a finger is a Braille display
\nand I can also use a speech synthesiser to listen to
\nwhat the computer is displaying on the screen.<\/p>\n

So I have gone up to gmail and this is my gmail.
\nI’m actually share some private emails with you.<\/p>\n

This is an email I want to show you, because this is
\na friend I’ll email. We had lunch last week. So I’m
\ngoing to.<\/p>\n

Because I have read — just to save time, I have
\nread the email.<\/p>\n

So I can send this email.<\/p>\n

This is how we work. Accessibility.<\/p>\n

It provides you with the tools that everybody else
\nis using and you can, you basically keep in touch with
\npeople anywhere else.<\/p>\n

For example, I missed the World Cup last night, so
\nI want to find out Spain versus — sorry, I made
\na mistake. So I’ll try again.<\/p>\n

Last night was Spain versus Switzerland.<\/p>\n

I will search the web.<\/p>\n

Immediately I know that Spain lost for some reason.<\/p>\n

I don’t want to go into the details here, but
\nalready the results is placed.<\/p>\n

I will go into any of these search results and then
\nfind out feature articles and so on and so forth.<\/p>\n

But then the reason why the web is designed to work
\nwith accessible devices is that there is an
\ninternational standards at W3C.organisation.<\/p>\n

I can show you.<\/p>\n

This is the web accessibility initiative of W3C.<\/p>\n

Its mission is to design the web so that everybody
\nis accessible.<\/p>\n

Web accessibility is not an additional add on. It
\nis regarded as part of what web should be.<\/p>\n

Unfortunately, it’s not everybody’s knowledge, not
\nevery web is accessible.<\/p>\n

About 10 years ago, when worldwide web was promoted
\nwidely in Hong Kong, the government of Hong Kong has
\nadopted a web accessibility policy.<\/p>\n

So major public websites are complying with this
\nguideline, international guideline, and it actually
\npromotes the guideline itself.<\/p>\n

We are now at Cyberport, so let’s see what the
\nCyberport website is.<\/p>\n

It has some problem.<\/p>\n

Because I cannot hear the voice.<\/p>\n

Let me check.<\/p>\n

OK. Hong Kong Cyberport.<\/p>\n

There are some problem with this website, because
\nI can read — for you, you see a number of links, but
\nI can only read R2, R3C2 and so on. Because the links,
\nthe hypertext, the text of these links are not spelt out
\nin meaningful content, because maybe the web designer
\nwhen the web was constructed, they were not aware that
\nthere will be assistive technology which wants to
\nconverse, which wants to read these hyperlinks in this
\nmanner.<\/p>\n

The adjustment is very easy. There are many — at
\nthe same time, there are websites which make a great
\neffort to comply with web accessibility.<\/p>\n

I will show you one.<\/p>\n

This is UBS’s website. It contains a web
\naccessibility statement, which I think is a model.<\/p>\n

What UBS is telling its customers is that we care
\nfor visually handicapped users and we design our web so
\nthat we assist the accessibility technology and if there
\nare problems, please contact us.<\/p>\n

This is UBS. This is not any NGO or welfare
\norganisation.<\/p>\n

That’s how web accessibility can be mainstreamed.<\/p>\n

This is not new and UBS is not alone. They may not
\nbe even the first.<\/p>\n

It’s promoted as an international standard, so BBC,
\nall the websites are accessible.<\/p>\n

Public organisations such as Olympics, FIFA, they
\nall comply with this standard.<\/p>\n

The UN Convention on Disability requires that
\nservices are accessible to all disabled persons.<\/p>\n

So it is already signed by hundreds of nations and
\nit’s being implemented.<\/p>\n

In Hong Kong, the Disability Discrimination
\nOrdinance also required providers to provide services to
\nall people unless they have unsurmountable problems and
\nweb accessibility is not.<\/p>\n

There are legal cases in US and Australia on the
\nbasis of inaccessible websites.<\/p>\n

The 2000 Olympic events, the website for the games,
\nhas already been put to court, because of its
\ninaccessible design.<\/p>\n

Seven banks and financial institutions in the US
\nwere facing legal suits on inaccessible websites in the
\nyear 2004.<\/p>\n

They settled with the advocacy group before the
\ncourt actually had a chance to rule whether or not web
\naccessibility is part of what they call the Americans
\nwith Disabilities Act.<\/p>\n

These are the legal background for web
\naccessibilities.<\/p>\n

We want to, instead of showing the PowerPoint,
\nI think it’s not very necessary.<\/p>\n

But let me tell you that in Hong Kong, apart from
\nthe government, we found a lot of websites inaccessible.<\/p>\n

It is not treated as a normal feature of a website.<\/p>\n

So we recently have been glad to have been given
\na fund from the Digital Solidarity Fund, to promote web
\naccessibility.<\/p>\n

So we will be sample testing 30 public service
\nwebsites, I mean websites from companies and NGOs,
\neducational institutions and to highlight the importance
\nof web accessibilities.<\/p>\n

We will also run training courses for blind people
\nto help them to make the best use of websites for their
\ndaily life, for education, for employment purposes.<\/p>\n

In conclusion, as I started off, web is a two edged
\nphenomenon. It enables people to overcome difficulties,
\nobstacles, but it can also create obstacles of its own.<\/p>\n

It depends on how we structure it.<\/p>\n

But we have a vision that accessible websites is
\ngoing to be a leveller, bridging digital gaps. It will
\nenable blind persons or disabled persons to find
\nemployment on the web, to find friends on the web, to
\nstudy on the web and to also display their potentials,
\nthrough the web.<\/p>\n

So thank you very much.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: Thank you, just in case you didn’t know,
\nMr Chong, we have sign language transcription as well at
\nthe same time while you talk.<\/p>\n

Now the floor is yours, ladies and gentlemen.<\/p>\n

I welcome questions and comments and anything you
\nwant to say before you speak, please identify yourself
\nfor transcription purposes.<\/p>\n

We also have people monitoring the on-line chat room
\nin case they have questions, you can pass it to me, too.<\/p>\n

>> : Thank you. Just one quick question is about — my name
\nis Ken from the Hong Kong Federation of Youth Groups.<\/p>\n

I think many years ago, when I was actually teaching
\npeople how to build accessible website, at that time,
\nwhat you call the screen reader that Mr Chong is using
\nis only in English version.<\/p>\n

Now it seems that the screen reader now improved.
\nI hear it is actually in Cantonese, isn’t it?<\/p>\n

By that time, in US, the section 508 already
\nestablished. It means that for public website, it is
\nlegally required to have accessibility features built-in
\nthere.<\/p>\n

Do you think in Hong Kong, we need some sort of
\nguidelines or regulations in place?<\/p>\n

>> Chong Chan Yau: Your question is whether or not Hong Kong
\nneeds guideline for — I think we need that. We
\nactually have a guideline. The government is promoting
\nweb accessibility guideline from the worldwide web
\nconsortium. I have shown that to you.<\/p>\n

Second, we believe that it falls within the
\ndisability discrimination law in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

Third, I think we need more promotion at different
\nsectors, like universities, schools, service
\norganisations, commercial organisations and so on and so
\nforth.<\/p>\n

I think the guideline is not an issue. The issue is
\npublic education and the implementation of the law.<\/p>\n

>> : One follow-up question. When we try to build an
\naccessibility website, to me, it’s very difficult,
\nbecause first I don’t have the screen reader with me.
\nI download the trial version and it is really difficult
\nto build.<\/p>\n

As a web administrator, I would like to know if it
\nis actually OK if we build just a text based website, it
\nis good enough for you to read.<\/p>\n

>> Chong Chan Yau: There is no need to build a text only
\nmode, because the assisted technology can now handle
\ntext in a sort of full mode.<\/p>\n

For web designer, after reading the guideline, they
\nare still not sure, then the users test is the best
\nguarantee.<\/p>\n

So contact the Hong Kong Blind Union, then we’ll
\nprovide —<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: We are setting up a social enterprise to help
\nyou with that.<\/p>\n

>> Chong Chan Yau: We will first of all provide you with
\nsome user feedback and in time, if there is such a great
\ndemand, we might think about John Fung’s idea of setting
\nup a social enterprise.<\/p>\n

>> : My name is Mimi Ho and I’m working as an IT consultant
\nin Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

I have a question about the on-line PC, OLPC. What
\nkind of benefits do you see in any statistics like John
\nGalligan from Microsoft citing this morning like certain
\nincrease in percentage GDP that the technology is
\nbringing or specific cases in Malaysia for a certain
\nsolution.<\/p>\n

What kind of benefits that you can cite, whether it
\nis social, economic or cultural that this innovative
\ntechnology is bringing after it has been deployed in the
\ndisadvantaged sectors in Asia.<\/p>\n

>> Anthony Wong: First of all, it’s not on-line PC, it’s one
\nlaptop per child.<\/p>\n

This is a very good question. A lot of people ask
\nthat question.<\/p>\n

This project has only been launched for a little bit
\nover two years. The PCs have only been mass produced in
\nearly 2008.<\/p>\n

So far, we have distributed about 1.5 million of
\nthese laptops to various parts of the remotest
\ndistricts. This is far from satisfactory.<\/p>\n

Out of 2 billion users, so this is still a challenge
\nfor us.<\/p>\n

Definitely, the early feedback is that in these
\nareas, where education is nearly impossible, the
\navailability of this device greatly helps the
\ndevelopment of learning, of knowledge, and actual access
\nto the outside world, through the device.<\/p>\n

Some people started to study, have started to study
\nthe effects, the socioeconomic implications, but to come
\nup with a PhD thesis later on is something else, but we
\nactually noticed a lot of phenomenas in those villages.<\/p>\n

For example, the school attendance rates in some of
\nthese areas significantly increased by many, many fold.
\nA lot of the parents previously would not allow the
\nchildren to go to school, because they want them to stay
\nat home to help them farming and do something else. But
\nnow, having known that they can have access to education
\nin a proper manner, they have a PC to work, they send
\nthe children, even if they have to work two or three
\nhours a day to go to school, they still do that.<\/p>\n

A lot of communications between school children and
\nteachers have started to take place.<\/p>\n

I believe maybe in a few years time, we will be able
\nto see the actual statistical results coming up.<\/p>\n

But at the moment, we believe this is satisfying
\na big gap in the digital divide, where you have nothing
\ncompared with you starting to have something that is
\nstarting to work.<\/p>\n

Actually, a few countries have embraced this project
\nin a countrywide manner. For example, Uruguay, the
\nUruguay government have decided that each and every one
\nof the children will have a laptop like this.<\/p>\n

I’m not going to promote the sale of this particular
\nhardware, because we lose money every one of them when
\nwe sell. It’s the concept that we are selling, that we
\nneed technology to overcome this difficult situation of
\neducation for the deprived.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: In the interests of time, I can take only one
\nmore question.<\/p>\n

>> : I’m Alex from Internet Professional Association.<\/p>\n

My question is I want to ask Michael about
\ntelecentres. As John told me about the telecentres
\nbefore, it’s very successful in Canada. We have
\na project with HKCSS and Cyberport for the DCCA. You
\nmay hear about that.<\/p>\n

Do you know the difference between what sort of
\nphase we can go forward to do a step in telecentre in<\/p>\n

Canada?<\/p>\n

You haven’t know about the DCCA project before in
\nHong Kong?<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: It’s like telecentre …<\/p>\n

>> : Because we want to know anything we can go forward to
\nmake it better than that for Hong Kong society.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: So you’re looking for advice on
\norganising telecentres?<\/p>\n

>> : What sort of things we can go forward, go forward to do
\nit.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: To do what?<\/p>\n

>> : Telecentre.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: You are —<\/p>\n

>> : What are the next steps?<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: The next steps for —<\/p>\n

>> : You mention about the application and something like
\nthat.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: Yeah. I guess the experience in Canada
\nhas been the telecentres have been most successful in
\nrural areas, so the experience doesn’t translate that
\ndirectly into Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

>> : Actually, why I have this question is not only for
\nHong Kong, maybe we can promote this idea to Mainland
\nChina, especially for rural areas in China.<\/p>\n

>> Michael Gurstein: OK, if that’s the case, I guess the
\nfirst basis of success is probably developing local
\npartnerships. That is the strategy of using public
\nfunds as a trigger rather than as a full investment.<\/p>\n

I think where the Canadian experience has been most
\nsuccessful is where the relatively small amounts of
\nfunds have tapped into local, often non-financial, but
\nvoluntary resources. It’s to link into communities that
\nare already look — they’re looking for some way of
\nmoving into another stage of development.<\/p>\n

The link with the telecentre becomes a focal point
\nfor a whole range of activities and development
\nprocesses at the local level.<\/p>\n

The telecentre is really a trigger. It’s not an end
\nin itself. It’s a way of opening up a whole range of
\nadditional opportunities.<\/p>\n

Where the telecentres have been most successful is
\nwhere the initial partnership funding partnership has
\nbeen with a relatively active local organisation that
\nhas fairly extensive networks, is fairly active at the
\nlocal level.<\/p>\n

Where the resources that are provided are not
\nprovided, are provided in an iterative way.<\/p>\n

So that as there is a development or as there is an
\ninnovation or an idea for an innovation at the local
\nlevel, then additional funding comes in to facilitate
\nthat development.<\/p>\n

The more flexible the response on the part of
\ngovernment, the more flexible and responsive the
\ngovernment can be and it’s very difficult for
\ngovernments to be flexible and responsive.<\/p>\n

But the more flexible and responsive they can be,
\nthe more they’re able to build on the community
\nprocesses and the community resources.<\/p>\n

Because the real experience is that if government
\nhas to pay for at civil service rates or at professional
\nrates, all of the services that go into local access and
\nlocal telecentres, it really isn’t possible and isn’t
\nsustainable.<\/p>\n

What it needs to do is to identify ways and provide
\nincentives at the local level to draw out those
\nresources and to facilitate at the local level the
\nidentification of local uses and applications that make
\nsense at the local level and then can become owned by
\nthe local community and that then can become sustainable
\nin the longer term.<\/p>\n

The real issue for telecentres in the longer term is
\nsustainability.<\/p>\n

Generally, it’s not financial sustainability.
\nBecause no agency is likely to provide continuing
\nfunding, at least not in the modern age.<\/p>\n

No government, no NGO wants to provide continuing
\nfunding for an activity that’s an open-ended activity.<\/p>\n

What has to happen is the telecentre has to find
\nways of becoming socially sustainable at the local
\nlevel, which means that it has to find ways of revenue
\nsources that are meaningful at the local level. That
\nwill vary from community to community. It has to find
\nways of engaging with volunteers at the local level and
\nvoluntary skills at the local level, because the range
\nof skills that will make a local telecentre successful
\nare quite broad.<\/p>\n

They will be available locally, but very often there
\nwon’t be the funds to pay for them on a professional
\nbasis, so engaging them on a voluntary basis, as
\na community, as a community service, is part of the
\nsustainability process.<\/p>\n

I guess it’s easy to give answers at the macro
\nlevel, but what has to happen is that the process of the
\ndevelopment of the telecentre has to be very reflective
\nof local conditions, of local opportunities, local
\nresources, local skills, the local economic base and so
\non.<\/p>\n

I guess the message that I would convey is the more
\nflexibility that can be built in at the funding end, at
\nthe government end, flexibility in terms of
\nadministration, management, requirements, auditing, the
\nmore likely it will be to be successful at the local
\nlevel.<\/p>\n

Just one example. The government of Canada has
\njust, in its current funding round in this area, has
\nsaid that all telecentres have to be audited or they
\nhave to be capable of providing some kind of audited
\nstatement or the managing organisation has to be
\nauditable.<\/p>\n

Basically, that would have put the entire telecentre
\nnetworks in Canada out of business, because they can’t
\nafford the cost of doing professional audits.<\/p>\n

So there’s a huge cry from the telecentres basically
\nsaying, you can’t do this to us and so the government
\nwas able, was willing to be flexible and change that
\nfrom a fully audited statement to assigned commitment
\nthat the books that were presented from bookkeepers were
\nin fact valid and were capable of being audited if
\nanybody did that.<\/p>\n

The flexibility — the inflexibility of the
\ngovernment in insisting on that and then the flexibility
\nof being able to respond to that was really the lesson
\nto be learned.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: Thank you, I have heard the key word,
\nflexibility and sustainability.<\/p>\n

May I now call upon our chairperson of the local
\nhost, organising committee, Mr Stephen Lau, to give some
\nquick remarks.<\/p>\n

>> Stephen Lau: In view of time, just a couple of very quick
\nobservations.<\/p>\n

In the last two days, we had a regional forum, where
\nregional experts talk about regional issues fairly much
\nin depth.<\/p>\n

Our conference for these two days for the community
\nis mainly educational, awareness, instilling awareness.<\/p>\n

I think our panellists have done a really good job.
\nWe had two visually demonstrated, demonstrable
\npresentations, in particular one from One Laptop Per
\nChild, as well as a viable presentation from a person
\nwho is visibly handicapped.<\/p>\n

I think it does serve the purpose of this kind of
\nforum.<\/p>\n

Just a couple of quick words. I’m really in sync or
\necho what Michael was talking about the last mile, the
\nlast 20 per cent is what we should focus upon, in terms
\nof advancing the interests of the community, interaction
\nthrough the internet.<\/p>\n

This last 20 per cent was pointed out from our
\nfriend from Christian Action. Not just talking about
\neconomically poor, but also in terms of the racial
\nminority, which actually a lot of that should be covered
\nand should be taken care of as as well.<\/p>\n

One final point, in all the presentations, and if I
\ncan borrow from our friend from Christian Action, the
\nfinal bullet is multi-stakeholders discussion,
\ninteraction and action.<\/p>\n

That’s what the whole IGF is all about. 360, all
\nthe stakeholders get together, discuss, interact and
\nthen have some collaborative action.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> John Fung: My final duty is to present souvenirs to our
\ndistinguished speakers. To make our action meaningful,
\nthe local organising committee has taken the liberty to
\nhave the souvenir money donated in their names to the
\nDigital Solidarity Fund, which is set up to make the
\ninternet more accessible and diverse.<\/p>\n

May I now call upon Stephen to present at least the
\nreceipts to them.<\/p>\n

One final housekeeping announcement. Our District
\nCyber Centre Alliance has a mobile laptop library. It’s
\na bus. It’s now parked at the entrance of this
\nbuilding, where you came up from. If you have time,
\nafter lunch, please go and have a look. It’s worth
\nseeing and you can actually use the laptop there, too.<\/p>\n

>> : Now it’s the lunchtime. Lunch is served for all
\nregistered participants.<\/p>\n

Please proceed towards my left-hand side outside the
\nvenue. There is simultaneous interpretation from
\nCantonese, Mandarin and English. Get a headset from the
\nT-shirt counter.<\/p>\n

We will be back at 2:45.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Access and Diversity ________________________________________________________________________ REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Access and Diversity Hong Kong IGF 11:00-12:30, Thursday 17 June 2010 Hong Kong DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live speaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may contain errors and mistranslations. An edited version of the realtime transcript which amends the inherent errors, … <\/p>\n

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