{"id":288,"date":"2010-06-17T09:22:37","date_gmt":"2010-06-17T09:22:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rigf.asia\/?page_id=288"},"modified":"2024-01-25T06:49:59","modified_gmt":"2024-01-25T06:49:59","slug":"aprigf-roundtable-june-15th-2010-session-3","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/aprigf-roundtable-june-15th-2010-session-3\/","title":{"rendered":"APrIGF Roundtable – June 15th, 2010: Session 3"},"content":{"rendered":"

Openness: Challenges and Criticalness of an Open Internet Culture<\/span>
\n________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Openness: Challenges and Criticalness of an Open
\nInternet Culture
\nAPrIGF
\n14:00-15:30, Tuesday 15 June 2010
\nHong Kong<\/p>\n

DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live
\nspeaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may
\ncontain errors and mistranslations. An edited version of the
\nrealtime transcript which amends the inherent errors, will
\nbe posted later. LLOYD MICHAUX and APrIGF accept no
\nliability for any event or action resulting from the
\ncontents of this transcript.<\/p>\n

________________________________________________________________________<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 Welcome back to this session.<\/p>\n

This session, the topic is about challenges and
\ncriticalness of an of internet culture.<\/p>\n

So now may I invite our moderator, Mr Robert Guerra,<\/p>\n

Project Director of internet freedom, Freedom House, to
\nstart the session for us.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Good afternoon.\u00a0 Thank you for coming to
\nthis session and I know it’s a session after lunch, so
\nwe’ll try to be as interactive as possible.<\/p>\n

We’re trying to make sure that we have some of the
\ndifferent perspectives here.<\/p>\n

I’ll briefly introduce myself, we’ll have the
\npanellists introduce themselves and I’m really looking
\nforward to a discussion amongst the panellists and also
\nQ and A and comments from the audience as well.<\/p>\n

As mentioned earlier, I’m Robert Guerra, the Project
\nDirector at Freedom House’s Internet Freedom Programme.
\nI’m hoping this session on openness will be of keen
\ninterest.<\/p>\n

What we’re trying to do is present different
\nperspectives, both from Hong Kong, from the corporate
\nsector, from Thailand and the Philippines.<\/p>\n

I’m going to have each panellist briefly introduce
\nthemselves for one minute.\u00a0 Their name, organisation,
\nvery brief summary of what they’re going to talk about
\nand then we’ll come back and have Ken start off.<\/p>\n

>> Oliver Robillo:\u00a0 Good afternoon, I’m Oliver Robillo, but
\neveryone calls me Blogie, for obvious reasons.<\/p>\n

I come from the Philippines, Davos city, in
\nMindanao, in the south of the country.\u00a0 I represent
\nMindanao bloggers’ community.\u00a0 It’s a community of
\nbloggers from all over the island of Mindanao.\u00a0 There
\nare about 300 of us now.<\/p>\n

Our main purpose is to bring out our content into
\nthe world, so that everybody gets to understand what
\nMindanao really is all about, because in the
\nPhilippines, even among our fellow Filipinos, Mindanao
\nis a very misunderstood place.<\/p>\n

So that’s our primary purpose, to foster
\nunderstanding.<\/p>\n

>> Chiranuch Premchaiporn:\u00a0 Good afternoon everybody.\u00a0 I’m
\nChiranuch Premchaiporn, I come from Thailand, I work for
\nthe online media news Prachatai, that mean free people.<\/p>\n

I would like to talk a bit more about the new law
\nthat just like implement for three years in Thailand,
\nthe computer crime act, that affect the people life in
\nThailand and maybe it refers to some issues about the
\nintermedia abilities.<\/p>\n

>> Ken Ngai:\u00a0 Good afternoon everybody.\u00a0 My name is Ken.\u00a0 I’m
\nthe Website Director of the Hong Kong Federation of
\nYouth Groups.<\/p>\n

I’m also the Project Manager of the campaign.<\/p>\n

Of these few years, we have seen a lot of issues in
\ninternet usage, so our group Federation of Youth Groups<\/p>\n

actually is very concerned about how people use internet
\nhealthily, properly and avoid against the inappropriate
\ncontent.<\/p>\n

So is the government.\u00a0 So government last year
\nfunded a project called the Be Net Wise Campaign, so I’m
\nmanaging this campaign.<\/p>\n

Today I’m going to present to you one of the
\nresearch studies findings, conducted in recently.<\/p>\n

>> Leslie Chu:\u00a0 I’m Leslie, I’m from Hong Kong.\u00a0 I work for
\nMicrosoft and I run the on-line service group for
\nHong Kong and Taiwan.<\/p>\n

Today is my pleasure to share together about how we
\nsee some of the views about security on line, freedom on
\nline and some other issues we can share together.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n

Ken will be starting with the results of his study.<\/p>\n

>> Ken Ngai:\u00a0 Thank you, everybody.<\/p>\n

Before I get started, let me give you some
\nbackground about this study first.\u00a0 This study actually
\nis one of the most — we consider is one of the most
\nrepresentative studies ever conducted in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

It is because of the sample size, it’s quite big and
\nthe way that we conduct it.<\/p>\n

It’s done by the University of Hong Kong.\u00a0 I’m not
\nthe guy who actually do the study and the analysis, but
\nbecause I’m the Project Manager, so I present the
\nfindings.\u00a0 If there’s some detail methodology issues,
\nI probably can answer, but we will soon update this full
\nreport on our website and you can download later.<\/p>\n

For this study, we try to understand what
\nbehavioural risk of children, or youth, between parents
\nand youth.<\/p>\n

Because of this project, we want to find, to have
\nsome evidence base to conduct what we should do and what
\neducations, what internet education should be doing.<\/p>\n

So we look forward to have this kind of
\nrepresentative research done in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

The method, a representative sample through
\nscreening over 18,000 samples from local address is
\nidentified.\u00a0 Then we try to reach children between 6 to
\n17 years old.<\/p>\n

Parents will be interviewed together.\u00a0 So all
\nchildren aged between 10 to 17 will be also interviewed.<\/p>\n

If the family contain two children, one between 6 to
\n9 and another between 10 to 17, the parents will be
\ninterviewed twice.<\/p>\n

Here is some examination result.\u00a0 Total number of
\naddresses sampled is 18,600 something.<\/p>\n

We found valid cases of over 3,600.<\/p>\n

Total number of households successfully interviewed
\nis 2,590.<\/p>\n

Those with children is 2,098.<\/p>\n

So what do we have from this sample?<\/p>\n

The first time we can see that this is a total
\nnumber of hours that we find children using internet.<\/p>\n

We separate into two classes, one are those parents
\nwith internet knowledge and another class is with
\nparents without internet knowledge.<\/p>\n

We see that there is an obvious trend that children
\nactually surf on the internet with more time during
\nholidays than normal school day.<\/p>\n

Boys use the internet a little bit more than girls.<\/p>\n

We also find that the children of parents without
\ninternet knowledge spend more time on the internet.<\/p>\n

Here is an interesting finding.\u00a0 Some views about
\nparents.<\/p>\n

Parents think that over 27 per cent of the parents
\nthinks that children use too much internet, spend too
\nmuch time there.<\/p>\n

We count the top 2 of the last bar, the red and
\nyellow add up together, over 27 per cent.<\/p>\n

That means, actually, parents are not very happy
\nwith children using too much internet, over one-quarter.<\/p>\n

Here we also see the activities that youth users do
\non-line.<\/p>\n

We see different search for information, doing
\nhomework and so on.<\/p>\n

Actually, from the other slide, you will see
\na divergence of expectations.<\/p>\n

Parents expect children to do things on-line is very
\ndifferent from children actually are doing on-line.<\/p>\n

I think this is very obvious.<\/p>\n

Especially when you compare the red line from the
\nblue bar, especially one of the items, we call it
\nleisure.<\/p>\n

Children actually expect to use internet for leisure
\nmore than their parents.<\/p>\n

The first bar is learning and doing homework.\u00a0 Most
\nparents actually expect their children to do it.<\/p>\n

Places to use computer.<\/p>\n

Hong Kong is very small.\u00a0 Most of the households are
\nvery small.<\/p>\n

Many children actually may not have their own rooms.<\/p>\n

However, we still find about 15 per cent, about 15
\nto 20 per cent of children have their own rooms where
\nthey put their computers.<\/p>\n

As we see, we always OK, if the children is too
\nsmall, we shouldn’t put the computer in their own rooms,
\nshould be in the common area.\u00a0 But in the situation of<\/p>\n

Hong Kong, many families don’t have the luxury to let
\ntheir children have their own room.\u00a0 We still have about
\n15 to 20 per cent of the children having their machines
\nin their room.<\/p>\n

This is obvious inference where the parents can see
\ntheir computer screens, because most of them actually
\nput their computers in common areas, so they can see
\nwhat they are doing.<\/p>\n

Again, this is a very different in expectations.<\/p>\n

Whether the children want their parents to see their
\ncomputer screens.<\/p>\n

We see a normal trend.<\/p>\n

The red line is from children and the blue bar is
\nfrom parents.<\/p>\n

Mostly, children just want sometimes to see it, not
\nalways.<\/p>\n

I think we don’t need to explain.\u00a0 We can
\nunderstand.<\/p>\n

A number of on-line friends your parents know.<\/p>\n

We found that about 60 per cent had on-line friends.
\nActually, I guess a bit more, but in our finding, we
\nfind 60 per cent of the children has on-line friends.<\/p>\n

Their parents only knew very few or even none of
\nthem, their on-line friends.<\/p>\n

Again, this is actually more than half seldom or
\nnever talk about their on-line experience, their on-line
\nencounters with their parents.<\/p>\n

This is obvious.\u00a0 Most of them actually involved in
\nunsupervised usage of computers.\u00a0 Nobody looking at
\nthem.\u00a0 In Hong Kong situation, many parents work long
\nhours.\u00a0 They come home very late and don’t have time to
\nsupervise their children to look at and especially when
\nsome children, if they can use their computers in their
\nrooms at midnight, their parents probably cannot
\nsupervise them.<\/p>\n

Here common threat, some known threat happen in the
\ninternet.<\/p>\n

We check whether parents or children know about it,
\nso they can probably have some precautions about it.<\/p>\n

We found that generally, just when you look at the
\nmiddle one, the red line is over the blue one.\u00a0 Children
\nare usually more concerned with virus infections and
\nthey are more aware of it than their parents.<\/p>\n

In most cases, children are less aware of any threat
\nin the internet than their parents.<\/p>\n

Normally, they see most of it actually the blue bar
\nis higher than the red line.<\/p>\n

Here is some conclusion.<\/p>\n

Again, in this study, also we carry out with some
\nparents method to guide or supervise their children.<\/p>\n

Here, four major methods that we set out.\u00a0 One is
\nrule settings, another is involvement, means the parents
\nget involved when they get surf in the internet.<\/p>\n

The third one is restrictions, restricting what they
\ncan do, what they should not.<\/p>\n

The last one is monitoring.<\/p>\n

We see this is the spread of the children feel that
\nparents are using.<\/p>\n

We spread into age and gender, by different kind of
\nparental method.<\/p>\n

Here, again, we separate parents into two classes.
\nOne is parents without internet knowledge and the other
\nis parents with internet knowledge.<\/p>\n

We see one trend here is actually in particular the
\nrestrictions method.<\/p>\n

Parents without internet knowledge, because they
\ndon’t know what they’re doing on-line, so they tend to
\nuse restriction method.<\/p>\n

The other class of restriction method is less than
\nhappen in parents case.<\/p>\n

Here, how effective are all these different kinds of
\nmethods.\u00a0 The way that we mean effectiveness here is
\nactually quite subjective.\u00a0 It’s a questionnaire done to
\nparents, if they feel the way they use is effective in
\ncoaching and guiding their children using the internet.<\/p>\n

You see different method and with different
\npercentage.<\/p>\n

Here is by age.<\/p>\n

And by gender.<\/p>\n

The last one, we have covered in the study is about
\nthe parenting style.<\/p>\n

This is very different from the other study, because
\nvery few cases that we try to correlate parenting style
\nwith use of internet.<\/p>\n

Here, we put three different kinds of parenting
\nstyle.\u00a0 The authoritative, authoritarian and permissive
\nparenting styles.<\/p>\n

We understand, actually, the parenting style is not
\ndiscrete style, some sort of usually, but we try to
\nseparate them, so make it easier to compare.<\/p>\n

We found that more children found that their parents
\nhad authoritative parenting style, about 72 per cent of
\nthe parents in Hong Kong using authoritative parenting
\nstyle and about 35 per cent using authoritarian.<\/p>\n

What does this imply?<\/p>\n

Summary of this research.\u00a0 We find that a large gap
\nbetween parents and children’s internet education and
\nknowledge.<\/p>\n

Most computers were installed in the dining room in
\nHong Kong, because of the situation in Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

Many children think their parents can see their
\nscreen, but still we found about 20 per cent actually
\nthey cannot.<\/p>\n

Only 35 per cent said that they want their parents
\nto watch them using computers.<\/p>\n

About 40 per cent said they don’t have on-line
\nfriends.<\/p>\n

60 per cent said that they seldom or never talk with
\ntheir on-line experiences with their parents.<\/p>\n

Very few children report involvement frequently in
\nhigh risk behaviour.<\/p>\n

About 60 per cent use internet, use computers
\nwithout their parents around frequently.<\/p>\n

Most frequent method that the parents use is
\nrestrictions in parents without internet knowledge.<\/p>\n

Authoritative parents style is the most common style
\nin Hong Kong.<\/p>\n

Good family relations and good peer relations will
\nhelp them using internet.\u00a0 Actually there is
\na correlation with internet addiction issues.<\/p>\n

From this table, we see those underlined with yellow
\nbackground are those factors helping children.<\/p>\n

Internet, we can see from there, internet knowledge,
\ntime being together with the children, communication,
\nfor example, parenting style, for example, involvement
\nand so on.<\/p>\n

Here are some more.<\/p>\n

If we see from the authoritarian parenting style, we
\nsee a negative relationship there.\u00a0 It is not
\nbenefiting, it will hurt the relationship and it’s no
\ngood to use to coach the children to use the internet.<\/p>\n

Here I’m not going to define what internet addiction
\nis about, but the result that we find here is about
\n10 per cent of the sample that we saw with the risk of
\nhaving internet addiction.<\/p>\n

If we project with the total number of people in
\nHong Kong, we estimate about 77,000 Hong Kong children
\nprobably have a risk of internet addiction.<\/p>\n

I have finished.\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you very much, Ken.<\/p>\n

I think it’s very good to see that there’s a lot of
\ndiscussions, both earlier this morning, but as well in
\na lot of the previous IGFs, in regards to child
\nprotection and having a study that actually gives us
\nsome of the information about children in Hong Kong and
\ntheir parents, as particularly useful.<\/p>\n

I’ll now proceed with Chiranuch Premchaiporn who
\nwill make a couple of comments.<\/p>\n

You have 10 minutes.<\/p>\n

>> Chiranuch Premchaiporn:\u00a0 I thought it was quite
\ninteresting in seeing the research conducted on this and
\nlook into the time spent, time used, compared between
\nparents and children, it is quite similar.\u00a0 I quite
\nimpressive for to try to look in the perspective of like
\nthe gender, that issue.\u00a0 I would like to see this kind
\nof research done in Thailand as well, because the
\ninternet seen as kind of like a dangerous world for the
\nkids, I think, around the world, including Thailand.\u00a0 So
\nmaybe we need the kind of information that is quite
\nclear.<\/p>\n

I would like to talk a bit about Prachathai.\u00a0 I
\nwould like to start from — Prachathai is like an
\non-line media launch in June 2004 in Thailand.<\/p>\n

Prachathai, we serve news and articles in different
\nviews from mainstream media.\u00a0 We also provide open
\nspace, as well as forum discussion.\u00a0 Significantly after
\n2006, I would like to start by showing first that you
\nsee it.\u00a0 This was a displayed screen in normal situation
\nwhen you try to access some website that is what being
\nbrought.<\/p>\n

The page different from different ISP.\u00a0 This page
\nshow the cooperation between Ministry of Information
\nCommunication and Technologies or called MICT and TOT.<\/p>\n

One of the biggest telecommunication companies,
\nwhich is state enterprise.<\/p>\n

It is difficult to find actually numbers of websites
\nhave been, but it seems gradually increase that give the
\nadverse consequence by making internet connection in
\nThailand is lower down, I think most of you have some
\nexperience about the connection to internet in Thailand.<\/p>\n

The next slide is currently appears for website have
\nbeen broke according to state of emergency which has
\ndeclared since April 7 this year.<\/p>\n

This page I capture when I try to access my website,
\nwhich is first time officially it has been broke.<\/p>\n

We also share different domain name in order to help
\nour readers, user to access our website with our
\ncircumvention tools.<\/p>\n

Just lack week, Thai authority release the numbers
\nof website that they already brought by the orders under
\nstate of emergency for two months.\u00a0 There are over 2,200
\nURLs have been broke.<\/p>\n

Volume tear.\u00a0 This is a famous quote that is used to
\nbe misunderstood at the quote of Voltaire.\u00a0 I just found
\nout from the weekend, it not come from Voltaire, it come
\nfrom someone else, but relate to him.<\/p>\n

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to
\nthe death your right to say it.<\/p>\n

Anyway, I don’t know.\u00a0 Who said it, but this quote
\ninspire and empower for importance of the freedom of
\nexpression.<\/p>\n

I also believe and try to comply with these words.<\/p>\n

This is not easy at all to follow these inspired
\nwords.<\/p>\n

This is photos of myself on March 31 this year, that
\nI had to be detained in prison at the criminal court for
\nalmost four hours.<\/p>\n

Why?\u00a0 According to the charge against me under the
\nComputer Crime Act, although only a short period of time
\nI had to be in condition that I lost my freedom, it make
\nme realise how terrified if we have to live without
\nfreedom.<\/p>\n

The computer related offence commissions act,
\nComputer Crime Act, came into force on 18 July 2007.<\/p>\n

It was the first bill affecting freedom of
\nexpression passed by the national legislative assembly
\ninstalled by the military after the September 2006 coup.<\/p>\n

It’s grouped into two categories.\u00a0 Offence committed
\nagainst computer systems or computer data.\u00a0 This will be
\ncontained in the section 5-13 and the content offences
\ncommitted via a computer, which are already crimes in
\nthe pe natural code.<\/p>\n

You can look at it in the section 14-17.<\/p>\n

The crucial controversial and negative impact can be
\nseen obviously in the second category.<\/p>\n

I would like to articulate to section that they
\nconsider critical point and there are also two sections
\nthat brought me to be charged as a criminal.<\/p>\n

Section 14 provides for imprisonment for up to five
\nyears and a fine of up to about like US$3,000.<\/p>\n

Section 14 is the main provision Thai authorities
\nhave used to charge persons writing or posting material
\ndeemed to be defamatory of Royal Family, by.<\/p>\n

Section 15 allows the authorities to charge any ISP,
\nany kind of ISP, doesn’t mean only just internet service
\nprovider, the web content provider, the hosting service
\nprovider, all kinds of service provider, who
\nintentionally support or consent to the commission of an
\noffence under section 14.<\/p>\n

This gives — I draw this step and this line for
\nexperience about what’s going on to my life in three
\nyears.<\/p>\n

Affect from the enforcement of the Computer Crime
\nAct.<\/p>\n

I would like to start from late 2008, I summoned to
\ncrime division for three times about the contents paused
\nby users in my web forum, that they post during
\nthe April to October 2008.<\/p>\n

On 6 March 2009, I got arrested at my office and my
\npersonal laptop require with court order to my hard
\ndisk.\u00a0 This happened because of user post content in web
\nforum and it’s considered unlawful content.<\/p>\n

However, luckily like many accused, I got bailed out
\non the same day.<\/p>\n

A month later, I was required to meet with the
\npolice and was informed additional charge according to
\nthe content post during April to August 2008.<\/p>\n

On 2 June 2009, the police public prosecutor and
\nI was required for bailing again.<\/p>\n

Nine months later, if you have pregnant and you have
\nchildren, you can have that, nine months.<\/p>\n

After I had to present myself to prosecutor office
\nevery one or two months.\u00a0 The public prosecutor file me
\na lawsuit on 31 March this year and it’s the day that
\nI had experience to be in jail.<\/p>\n

That’s the photo I show before.<\/p>\n

On 31 May, first day of court appearance, for
\nexamine evidence and witness and we also schedule for
\ncourt hearing in February next year and I don’t know yet
\nwhat is the result.\u00a0 I will get into — I don’t know, up
\nor down for me, for my life.\u00a0 I don’t know.<\/p>\n

Because of the situation in Thailand, it is
\ndifficult to enjoy the freedom of expression and assure
\nthe protection ourselves and our user.<\/p>\n

We decide to close down our web forum.\u00a0 It will be
\neffective on 31 July.\u00a0 This is my public announcement.<\/p>\n

I didn’t inform my user yet.\u00a0 I don’t know how to.
\nI can’t inform them to understand why we have to close
\ndown our web forum discussion that we already run for
\nsix years.<\/p>\n

From my personal experience, I think it’s also
\nrefers to — reflect to the issues of intermediaries’
\nliability.\u00a0 That it can be so-called global threat as
\nwell as global trend.<\/p>\n

I pick up some quote from an article about the
\nintermediaries’ liabilities of the Centre for Democracy
\nand Technology.<\/p>\n

The internet and mobile technologies have amplified
\nthe ability of individuals to speak and access
\ninformation in unprecedented ways.\u00a0 This effect is
\nespecially true in the web 2.0 era, where user generated
\ncontent platforms allow individuals with little
\ntechnical knowledge or money to create, reproduce,
\ndisseminate and respond to content in a variety of
\nformats and with a worldwide audience.<\/p>\n

The intermediaries’ liability also may impact to
\nfreedom of expression and economic development.<\/p>\n

When intermediaries are liable for the content
\ncreated by others, they will strive to reduce their
\nliability risk.\u00a0 In doing so, they are likely to
\novercomp said, blocking even lawful content.\u00a0 In this
\nway, intermediaries’ liability chills expression on line
\nand transforms technological intermediaries into content
\ngatekeepers.<\/p>\n

Intermediaries’ liabilities also creates
\ndisincentives for innovation in information and
\ncommunications technologies.<\/p>\n

Without protection from liability, companies are
\nless likely to develop new ICT products and services.<\/p>\n

I would like to end my presentation with some ideas
\nas I consider as a positive approach.<\/p>\n

We should concern and neutralise our resource and
\neffort for intermediary protection that weaken or
\nundermine a key player with the intermediaries’
\nliabilities.<\/p>\n

Follow the web 2.0 era by implement user control
\ntogether with the user generated content system.<\/p>\n

In US, they are trying to set up the notice and
\ntaken down procedure.\u00a0 It’s interesting, especially when
\nthey are in situations that national security becomes of
\nmuch concern.<\/p>\n

However, this solution should be doubt for setting
\nstandard and transparently of the procedure to avoid
\nmisuse of the procedure.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Oliver Robillo:\u00a0 Good afternoon again.<\/p>\n

I wish my experience were as dramatic as my
\ncolleagues here from Thailand.<\/p>\n

But in the Philippines, we have complete freedom of
\nexpression until you get killed, that is.<\/p>\n

We actually enjoy the status of being the country
\nwith the most number of journalists killed in action.<\/p>\n

It has not spilled over yet to the on-line world and
\nthe number of bloggers killed to date is zero and I hope
\nit remains that way.<\/p>\n

Just to let people who don’t know where the
\nPhilippines is, our neighbours in Southeast Asia.<\/p>\n

I come from the south of the Philippines, which is
\na place called Mindanao.<\/p>\n

Just to give you an overview of the Philippines
\nsituation, we have, as I mentioned, a complete freedom
\nof expression, complete press freedom.\u00a0 You see a lot of
\narticles and TV shows lambasting our outgoing president
\nand with no consequences at all.<\/p>\n

But our friends as Freedom House labels the
\nPhilippines as not completely free.<\/p>\n

That’s because of not because of government
\nrepression or anything, but because of the convoluted
\nlibel laws of the Philippines and the existence of
\nfrivolous libel cases right now.<\/p>\n

As I mentioned, journalist killings.<\/p>\n

To date 120, ever since Arroyo came into power.<\/p>\n

In terms of the internet, in terms of openness, we
\nare unregulated.\u00a0 We do have the e-commerce law already
\nwhich not only regulates, but more actually promotes
\nbusinesses to go on line and with some statutes for
\nprotecting the businesses and the suppliers and the
\nconsumers.<\/p>\n

For example, one good thing that came out of that
\nwas that email documents now are considered legal
\ndocuments.\u00a0 They are legally admissible as evidence in
\ncourt..<\/p>\n

Then in terms of the development of the internet,
\nit’s largely private sector led.<\/p>\n

These are good.\u00a0 These things look good, but what
\nare the problems?<\/p>\n

With an unregulated internet environment, in the
\nPhilippines, even if we don’t have repressive
\ngovernment, sometimes we find that our ISPs, those who
\nare in business, are actually repressive.<\/p>\n

For example, the internet is market driven in the
\nPhilippines, so that it’s not doing anything for the
\ndigital divide.<\/p>\n

Everything is market driven, so if an ISP thinks
\nthat an area is not profitable, then it will not be
\nserved.<\/p>\n

Right now, especially in my area, in Mindanao, there
\nare a lot of underserved and unserved areas.<\/p>\n

While in my city, we enjoy cheap and relatively fast
\ninternet access, surrounding my city are areas that have
\nnot heard of the internet yet.<\/p>\n

There is a very, very big gap between those who know
\nand those who don’t know about the internet in the
\nPhilippines.<\/p>\n

It’s actually reflective of the socioeconomic
\nsituation of the country as well.<\/p>\n

With me is congressman from the Philippines and he
\nwas asking me last night: is it better to be unregulated
\nor to have regulations that are not perfect?<\/p>\n

I don’t know.<\/p>\n

We do value our freedom.\u00a0 We are very thankful that
\nwe do not have a perfect — we do not have a perfect
\ngovernment, but we are thankful it’s not repressive.\u00a0 No
\nmatter how much we complain about our leaders, we do
\nrecognise the fact that we are lucky compared to our
\nneighbours in Southeast Asia, in terms of governments.<\/p>\n

In terms of the private sector led — sorry
\nI mentioned that already.<\/p>\n

Let’s go onto the next.<\/p>\n

Since we do value our freedom and because we do have
\nfreedom, what are we doing about it?<\/p>\n

We feel, Filipinos who are on-line feel that those
\nof us who are activists in the internet feel that we do
\nhave a responsibility.<\/p>\n

We have this gift of freedom.\u00a0 What are we doing
\nwith it?<\/p>\n

These are just some of those activities, but since
\nwe have very limited time, I will just highlight some.<\/p>\n

The two major activities that we’re engaged in are
\neducational and based on advocacies.<\/p>\n

This is happening all over the Philippines in metro
\nManila, the capital, and in the middle of the
\nPhilippines and in Mindanao.<\/p>\n

In terms of educational activities, there are so
\nmany projects right now, for example, techtano, tano, it
\nstands for like guardian or a village watcher, so tech
\nto know is a group that makes sure that children are
\neducated properly when it comes to the internet.<\/p>\n

I wish we had a study like what Mr Ken has done for
\nHong Kong.<\/p>\n

Because we would really like to know what the effect
\nof our educational programmes are doing for Filipinos
\nchildren.<\/p>\n

WordCamp Philippines, we brought it to the
\nPhilippines in 2008.\u00a0 This is to educate more Filipinos
\nin the use of blogging platforms, of content management
\nsystems.<\/p>\n

There are many.<\/p>\n

To backtrack a bit, maybe I was a bit unfair to our
\nbig businesses in the Philippines, but actually there is
\na very big telco Philippines that does corporate social
\nresponsibility programme, such as provide internet
\nconducttivity or training to the underdeveloped areas.<\/p>\n

That’s what we are doing now with them.\u00a0 At least
\nnow they are starting to partner up with us and help us
\nextend our reach by providing financing.<\/p>\n

Most importantly, I think, what we have been up to
\nin the Philippines is citizen journalism towards
\nadvocacies.<\/p>\n

For example, we just had our national elections
\nlast May 10.\u00a0 It was the first time that we automated
\nthe national elections and of course it was the first
\ntime it involves a myriad, a host of people, so
\nexpectedly there were a lot of glitches, a lot of
\nweaknesses in the system.<\/p>\n

But because of the citizens, because of the
\nbloggers, the Twitterers, the Plerkers, the Facebookers,
\neverybody kept watch, so, for example, there was
\nBlogwatch.ph.\u00a0 That was a concerted effort.\u00a0 Although it
\nbehaves more like a magazine, a traditional publication,
\nbut it employed bloggers all across the Philippines, to
\nprovide reports about election monitoring.<\/p>\n

Then BMPM, that means watch your vote, in other
\nwords.<\/p>\n

That is a programme by traditional media employing
\ncitizens on the ground, using Twitter primarily and
\nFacebook and SMS.<\/p>\n

Some of you might know the Philippines was or maybe
\nstill is the text ing capital of the world with more
\nthan 10 million text messages a day.<\/p>\n

The Great Book Blockage.\u00a0 That’s just our name for
\nit.<\/p>\n

The Philippine government unfortunately tried to
\nimpose taxes on book imports.<\/p>\n

Any book that you order on line or off line, when it
\ncomes to the Philippines, it gets charged with tariffs.<\/p>\n

So a lot of us complained about that, because there
\nis actually a Geneva convention that says that books
\nshould be not taxed and I’m sorry, this was not actually
\nthe Philippine government as a whole, but just one
\nagency which is the bureau of customs, one of the —
\nnever mind.<\/p>\n

Because of the activities of Filipinos on-line,
\nthrough Twitter primarily, I believe, the government,
\nthe president withdrew the directive by the Bureau of
\nCustoms to impose tariffs on imported books.<\/p>\n

I believe that we should take credit for that, the
\nFilipino netizens.<\/p>\n

Then, of course, there was a precinct mapping which
\nGoogle provided for us.\u00a0 It was the citizens who went to
\nthe precincts and with the mobile phones, most of which
\nare already GPS capable, they just submitted coordinates
\nof their precincts, so that it will be easier for the
\ncitizens to locate their precincts.<\/p>\n

The beautiful thing about the Philippines now is
\nbecause of the openness, there is no clear demarcation
\nnow between media, traditional media, and the new media.
\nFor us, it’s a blur now, because media, you see a lot of
\njournalists now who are on Twitter or Facebook and they
\nactually have their own blogs as well.<\/p>\n

The same thing with us who come froms, who started
\nwith on line with the new media, some of us have found
\nourselves being published in formal publications.<\/p>\n

I think it’s good that way, because there’s no
\nchance for government or any entity that is malicious to
\ntry and control any of the communication organs in the
\ncountry.<\/p>\n

I think that’s what’s good about the Philippines
\nright now, in terms of the internet.<\/p>\n

If I may, I would just like to segue a bit and
\nintroduce you to my organisation.<\/p>\n

The Mindanao Bloggers’ Community.<\/p>\n

That is actually electronic representation of the
\nmap of Mindanao, the colours are the different regions.<\/p>\n

So it’s a huge island, but largely misunderstood,
\neven by our fellow Filipinos.<\/p>\n

As I mentioned earlier, the main purpose of the
\ncommunity is to bring out our content, our blogs,
\nprimarily the blog content, out into the internet, so
\nthat when you search for Mindanao, people will see our
\nblogs instead of the news.<\/p>\n

For many years, TV and radio and print, they would
\nonly report about Mindanao when it’s about conflict or
\nabout war or about poverty.\u00a0 None of them have business
\nbeats or lifestyle beat or whatever for Mindanao.\u00a0 If it
\nis good news, then they don’t report anything about us.<\/p>\n

That’s why we founded this organisation and tried to
\ntalk to media.<\/p>\n

Come on, there’s more happening in Mindanao than
\njust war.<\/p>\n

War or conflict is not even happening in the whole
\nisland, it’s in very small pockets, areas in Mindanao.<\/p>\n

This started in 2007 and I would like to think that
\nwe have been starting to become successful in our
\nsynergies with traditional media.<\/p>\n

The activities that we’re involved in currently are
\ntraining seminars, particularly towards the youth, about
\nblogging, particularly, of course, technical sessions,
\nbut always including a session on best practices.<\/p>\n

What we think are responsible blogging principles.<\/p>\n

Of course, we continue our synergy with media, with
\nmedia outlets, work with media organisations in the
\nPhilippines, such as the Philippine Centre for
\nInvestigative Journalism and Mindanews and with
\ngovernment.<\/p>\n

Right now, the newly created authority, the Mindanao
\nDevelopment Authority, whose representative is here as
\nwell, civil society, especially the Mindanao Bloggers’
\nCommunity, to try and provide content, to join a round
\ntable discussion to formulate the Mindanao peace and
\ndevelopment framework plan for 20:20.\u00a0 So we are very
\nexcited to be part of that as well.<\/p>\n

We are always looking forward to more international
\nparticipation and cooperation.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Leslie Chu:\u00a0 The speakers give all great presentations, so
\nI don’t think I have anything better.<\/p>\n

I will just share with you guys some of the
\nMicrosoft views on such issues.<\/p>\n

First, I think it is our great interest to be here.<\/p>\n

It’s not only because we are the sponsor of this forum,
\nbut actually Microsoft runs a few very worldwide popular
\ninternet applications, like I think most people using
\nmessenger, hotline, like MSN home page.<\/p>\n

First thing I want to say is we, Microsoft, as
\na software company and sometimes people call us a new
\nmedia company as well, we are not the policy maker.\u00a0 We
\nreally not that evil empire trying to dominate
\neverything.<\/p>\n

But we do see as if it’s a company that runs
\napplications to meet like hundreds of millions of people
\nevery day, worldwide.\u00a0 We understand it’s our
\nresponsibilities to do a few things.<\/p>\n

I think, first, from technology point of view,
\nMicrosoft wants to be, to make sure that from
\ninfrastructure or from the development point of view,
\nall the on loop applications, software, content we are
\nusing will be security enabled, so we will try to
\nprotect from the technology point of view, when you need
\nthat protection, it will be there.<\/p>\n

Second thing I think Microsoft would want to do is
\nworking with the forum like today, working with all the
\nconcerned parties and that’s the government or the
\ncommunities, to see how we can define what is the right
\nor wrong, what is the security, what is the privacy,
\nwhat should be defined as the openness for the internet
\nin the coming days.<\/p>\n

Because I don’t think we can do that, none of any
\nindividual or single organisation can do that.\u00a0 We need
\nto do this collectively together.<\/p>\n

The last thing I think what we see is like you need
\nto see the balance between the privacy and the security.<\/p>\n

What our approach will be, we want to give all the
\noptions ready so the users can pick from whatever they
\nthink will be appropriate for them.<\/p>\n

I think currently we are talking about internet
\nsecurity, openness.\u00a0 It is kind of the growing pain,
\nbecause there’s so many things undefined, even we are
\ntalking about the governments don’t have the clear
\npolicies, laws on that.<\/p>\n

I would take an example.<\/p>\n

Have you guys ever heard the terms in children
\ncalled (Chinese spoken).\u00a0 This means manpower search.
\nIt’s very interesting behaviour, so say if a user post
\na very unpopular speech or graphic on the internet,
\npeople on the same forum don’t really like him a lot,
\nwhat in China they do, they actually lots of people go
\nGoogle or actually I prefer binge their content, so they
\npost their off line content, like the telephone number
\nand their home address, everything that these people on
\nthe internet, so actually off line people will call
\nthese people, you know, harrass.<\/p>\n

Think about that.<\/p>\n

For such activities, it’s still a big debate,
\nwhether this is legal, illegal, whether this is privacy
\nor security.\u00a0 There’s a bunch of things, I think, it
\ntakes time and it takes everything of us working
\ntogether two set what’s for the best for the future.<\/p>\n

So I think this is the Microsoft view, that we want
\nfirst technology point of view to be ready, so when you
\nneed that, it will be there.<\/p>\n

Second is to work with everyone to set what is the
\nright thing for the future.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 I would like to thank all the panellists,
\nbefore we get the questions, just a quick kind of
\nsummary on the wealth of the different types of topics.
\nWe had a presentation at the I beginning on child
\nprotection, particularly a survey that was done of
\nchildren and their parents.<\/p>\n

The issue of intermediary liability and a specific
\ncase example of our colleague from Thailand.<\/p>\n

What things can be done when there’s openness in
\na particular country such as the case of the
\nPhilippines.<\/p>\n

Also, kind of Microsoft’s perspectives on some of
\nthe key issues.<\/p>\n

It’s a lot of different topics.\u00a0 I’m keen to get
\nsome questions from the floor.\u00a0 I’ll take them in groups
\nof three.<\/p>\n

I’ll ask each person to first identify themselves,
\nwhere they’re from and they’re with a particular
\norganisation, government or company.<\/p>\n

Any questions?<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 I’m from Cambodia, for the Cambodian Centre for Human
\nRights.<\/p>\n

I have a question to Chiranuch Premchaiporn.
\nParticularly you are from Thailand and it’s pretty close
\nto us and a lot of things that happen in Thailand will
\nhappen, if it’s not happening in Cambodia now, it will
\nhappen in the future, because we tend to look westward,
\nbut at this moment, also look east ward and the picture
\nin the east of Cambodia is not always that rosy as well.<\/p>\n

My question is you talk about the threats against
\nyou and all of the website blog block.<\/p>\n

Is there a concerted effort by the bloggers
\ncommunity or the on-line communities in Thailand to
\nfight this massive amount of websites that got blocked
\nin Thailand?\u00a0 I know of even some Cambodian website that
\ngot blocked in Thailand as well, because of the mention
\nof some of the potential royalty issues.<\/p>\n

Second, I want to also ask you, because you
\nmentioned about all these things and you will face court
\nin 20011.<\/p>\n

My question is what is the future hold for you, now
\nthat they block Prachathai, your website.\u00a0 What are you
\ndoing now and what does the future hold for you?\u00a0 How do
\nyou feel about your case?<\/p>\n

The other question is do you have hope that justice
\nwill prevail and do you believe in institutions in
\nThailand to fight for freedom of expression?<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you very much.\u00a0 Next question?<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 My name is Judy sun dough, I’m a blogger from the
\nPhilippines.<\/p>\n

My first question will be for comment.<\/p>\n

In terms of the openness, I think the latest battle
\nis in the legislation, as in all things.<\/p>\n

If you could expand briefly on the latest battle
\nwith the Freedom of Information Act in the Philippines
\nthat wasn’t passed.<\/p>\n

Second question would be for the study made on the
\ninternet use, would there be any data if which part of
\nthe internet or which medium did you prefer?\u00a0 Is it more
\nsocial media or more on games?<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 One more question this.<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 I have a question and a comment.<\/p>\n

One is that the killings of the journalists in the
\nPhilippines, as I understand it, because it is more
\ntypically radio journalists.\u00a0 The thing that it was most
\nafraid of is an ordinary citizen standing at the door at
\n7 am with a gun.<\/p>\n

So the issue of the killing journalists is not
\na normal situation, normal sense of what you expect or
\ngovernment coming down heavy handed on you.<\/p>\n

Bloggers, because of the nature of it is blogging,
\nmaybe you are more reflective, as compared to real
\njournalists who shoot off at the most, with all due
\nrespect to them.<\/p>\n

I think part of it is the lack of training, I think
\ntraining would help.<\/p>\n

Also, on your comment, Blogie on your point about
\nfreedom of expression and regulation, I think and I’m
\nnot just saying this because I’m from Singapore, but
\nI think for freedom of expression to work, you need
\nregulation.\u00a0 The regulation cuts both ways.\u00a0 I say just
\nbecause I’m from Singapore.\u00a0 Regulation cuts both ways
\nbecause it protect the journalist.\u00a0 End no sha where
\nthey abolished all the laws regarding regulation of
\ninformation, the offices burnt down because they were
\nnot protected.\u00a0 I so think you need to look at freedom
\nof expression with a view to some kind of regulation as
\nwell to protect bloggers and other writers.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

>> Chiranuch Premchaiporn:\u00a0 Thanks for your question.\u00a0 The
\nquestions from my Cambodian friend.<\/p>\n

I think about the maybe I start from the last
\nquestion.<\/p>\n

Any hope for my case for defence?\u00a0 I think still
\nlots of hope, as like the Computer Crime Act is like
\na new law that just implement in Thailand and I think we
\nhave, if we prepare well enough, maybe and if the judge
\nunderstand enough about the cultures and systems that’s
\ngoing on in the Internet Society, I think that will be
\nhelp for the judge to understand why the judge have to
\nprotect the intermedias or protect the service provider
\nor not the service provider to be charged as a criminal.<\/p>\n

I still hope and I still think judicial system in
\nThailand still have lots of hope on that issue.<\/p>\n

For the support among the civil societies, among the
\ngroups in Thailand, right now, I got support from trends
\nin the media organisation, and media defence initiative.
\nI’m not sure, but we call like MLDI or something like
\nthat.\u00a0 Legal aid and legal help in this and Thai
\nactivists, at least two groups that will help on this
\nissue.\u00a0 One is the Thai netizen network that we just
\nform for about like three years as a kind of group who
\nrepresent for the internet user in Thailand, to, the
\nprotections and provide internet literacies among the
\npeople, that is a kind of group that will do lots of
\nsupport on and we have freedom against censorship
\nThailand.\u00a0 That’s a group that’s set up I think for five
\nyears to promote and advocate on stop the censorship and
\ntie censorship in Thailand.<\/p>\n

So I think this is the kind of for.<\/p>\n

And for the current condition that our website being
\nbroke, this is official, first time that official broke
\nsince we run our website for six years and the blocking
\nsite is not the same issue with my charge, it’s
\na blocking site is under the state of emergency that
\nstill going on, maybe some of you might not know that
\nare still going on, even the protest stop, but the state
\nof emergency is still going on and the blocking site
\nstill going on as well.<\/p>\n

I think after they leave the emergency decree,
\nI hope it should be soon, but from the government, maybe
\nthere is like a month or two months to be continued
\nstate of emergency.<\/p>\n

They have to leave all the site that they block
\naccording to this state of emergency.<\/p>\n

Anyway, we try, right now we try lots of things,
\nlike when they block, sometimes they block IP address,
\nsometimes they block the domain name, so we try
\neverywhere, every way to like avoid that block.
\nSometimes we have to require for new IP to change our
\nDNS.\u00a0 Sometimes we have to change our domain name.
\nRight now, the current domain name for Prachathai is
\nPrachathai3.info.\u00a0 Why I choose info .N4.\u00a0 It is the
\ncheapest one that I can afford right now.\u00a0 That’s one.<\/p>\n

I also file a case to the government as well.\u00a0 In
\nthe case that I consider are unjustified to blocking our
\nsite, so we file a case to the programme and to the
\ndeputy prime minister for that, like unjustified block
\nus.\u00a0 We lost at the first round, at the lower court and
\nwe still appeal and right now, the conditions of our
\ncase in the appeal court.<\/p>\n

So I think try everywhere.\u00a0 I don’t know.\u00a0 We
\nprovide information for the people to understand how to
\naccess our site.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 I just have a question to Leslie in
\nregards to the issue of intermediary liability.\u00a0 It’s an
\nissue that’s come up in regards to the global network
\ninitiative that Microsoft is a part of, so just
\nwondering what your thoughts are of intermediary
\nliability in the Asian context and how you see it.<\/p>\n

>> Leslie Chu:\u00a0 This is a very good been.\u00a0 I think you can
\nsee from a few point of view.\u00a0 From Microsoft point of
\nview, you can see that we are providing the service to,
\nyou know, because internet, what I’m talking about here
\nis in five years time, maybe even shorter time, every
\ndevice will be internet enabled.\u00a0 So what we are trying
\nto do is trying to provide a service to facilitating
\npeople how to, you know, take most at benefit from the
\nnew technology and soon become very old technology.<\/p>\n

It is pretty much like, say, you using a telephone
\nand I’m just wondering whether, you know, telephone will
\nbe safer compared to using internet.\u00a0 It’s very hard
\nquestion to answer.<\/p>\n

So I would say that our approach will be to do
\nwhatever we can, as I mentioned from technology point of
\nview, to protect the users, from harm and the other side
\nI think the education is very important, because you
\nneed to let people know that the risk using different
\nkind of on-line application and services, then you need
\nto know how you are trying to avoid from such harm.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 I have a question, the last
\ncomments that were made, I’m just wondering if you have
\nany comments in regards to I guess the journalist
\ntraining and also the issue of regulation and when
\nactually having it is actually a good thing.<\/p>\n

>> Oliver Robillo:\u00a0 Thanks very much for that, our friend
\nfrom Singapore.<\/p>\n

The journalist killings, yes, most of them were
\nradio broadcaster, announcer.\u00a0 Very politicised ones, if
\nI may add.<\/p>\n

But I don’t think it was — some of them did lack
\ntraining, I suppose, in their fields of work, but
\nI think that wasn’t — I think the reason that they were
\nkilled was not because of what they were — not because
\nof how they were, you know, they are very fiery or very
\npassionate when they were lambasting a politician or
\na businessman, but I don’t think it was that.\u00a0 It was
\nthe fact that those who ordered the killings wanted them
\nsilenced, so no matter whether they were uncouth about
\nit or very diplomatic about it, they would still have
\nbeen silenced, I believe.<\/p>\n

It’s very unfortunate to note that it’s actually
\nvery easy to have somebody killed in the Philippines,
\nbecause of the gun trade and the poverty in many parts
\nof the Philippines.<\/p>\n

Because of lack of education, there’s so many
\ncompounding factors to this problem that I hope the
\ninternet will help to solve by making information more
\navailable across the islands.<\/p>\n

Regulation.<\/p>\n

I believe, personally, that existing laws in the
\nPhilippines are sufficient, even as applied to use of
\nthe internet.<\/p>\n

Because there are existing laws and probably even
\nordinances in local townships, local cities that protect
\nbusinesses, that protect individuals or organisations
\nfrom defamation, from libel, from similar perceived
\nwrongdoings.<\/p>\n

But that is a problem.\u00a0 As I mentioned during my
\npresentation, that there are now frivolous libel cases
\nagainst bloggers.<\/p>\n

Right now, a lot of us believe that these cases have
\nbeen filed to bully, in order to silence these bloggers.<\/p>\n

A case in point, very quickly, is this anonymous
\nblogger.\u00a0 She blogged about when a typhoon hit Manila,
\none of the worst typhoons we have ever had.\u00a0 This
\nblogger saw government office, the Department of Social
\nWelfare, no less, with full of a warehouse full of
\nrelief goods that had not been released to the victims,
\nto the areas affected by the typhoon.<\/p>\n

She blogged about it.<\/p>\n

I do believe she mentioned or she expressed her
\ndisappointment at the very least.<\/p>\n

She was sued for libel by the department head.<\/p>\n

Whether or not she was guilty of libel, I mean,
\nbecause of cases like this, it costs a lot of money to
\ndefend yourself in the Philippines.<\/p>\n

So even if we don’t have the political atmosphere
\nthat represses us, there are these cases that make us
\nafraid of saying anything.<\/p>\n

So a lot of the bloggers now and a lot of the
\njournalists censor themselves to avoid litigation, to
\navoid having to pay for when they are sued.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Let’s take maybe two more questions.<\/p>\n

>> Parminder Singh:\u00a0 From Bangalore.<\/p>\n

This is probably a remark about framing of the issue
\nof openness vis-a-vis internet.<\/p>\n

I understand the panel can do only that much, and it
\ntalked very well about openness vis-a-vis controls by
\nthe government and freedom of expression issue.<\/p>\n

But there are other aspects which I think should be
\nmentioned when we are framing an issue of openness and
\none is the vertical integration of the network
\napplications and services, the network neutrality of the
\nopen internet issue, which is increasingly manifest in
\nAsia and even in underdeveloped areas nowadays, that the
\nservices which are provided are particularly integrated
\nwith the network and how it interface with the openness
\nof the internet.<\/p>\n

Second issue is about open standards.\u00a0 And the
\ntremendous fight which organisations are doing at
\nnational levels to get open standard policies and the
\nkind of powerful actors they are up against and those
\nare big issues because if we don’t right now put the
\nright kind of open architectures out, it will soon be
\ntoo late and I think this kind of issues also should be
\nmentioned when we are talking about the openness of the
\ninternet.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Very good point.<\/p>\n

>> Narish Adjwani:\u00a0 Narish Adjwani which, I’m a president of
\nCyber Cafe Association of India.\u00a0 We are responsible for
\nthe ecosystem of ensuring the affordability of access to
\nthe mass usage in developing and emerging countries.<\/p>\n

This question is to you.\u00a0 Can you elaborate the
\ndefinition of intermediary in Thailand, because that has
\ngot a much wider meaning than an ISP.<\/p>\n

As for me, my understanding, if, as an organisation
\nwe facilitate internet or mobile connectivity, we become
\nan intermediary.<\/p>\n

So in case the worry is not — if the worrying is
\ncoming as an intermediary for ISPs, then definitely the
\nworrying is coming for many organisations who facilitate
\nthe internet connection to the user, or a mobile
\nconnectivity to the employee.<\/p>\n

am I correct in my understanding or no, it is only
\nlimited to ISPs in Thailand?<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 So what’s the definition of the ISP.<\/p>\n

>> Narish Adjwani:\u00a0 The definition of intermediary is what
\nI want to understand, because intermediary in a legal
\nword stands for anybody whosoever is responsible for
\nfacilitating internet or a mobile connectivity.<\/p>\n

>> Chiranuch Premchaiporn:\u00a0 Yes, that’s right.\u00a0 Not just only
\nthe ISP, the internet service provider, but all process
\nof like the connections and communication, that’s also
\ngoing on.<\/p>\n

It’s not just only in Thailand.\u00a0 If, like you want
\nto do the business in Thailand, you maybe have to comply
\nwith the law in Thailand.<\/p>\n

So it’s not just only Thai company, so all
\ncompanies, the international company.<\/p>\n

I think like maybe my colleagues from Thailand, he
\ncan add more, some comments on this.<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 (Thai colleague) I mean, that’s very true, that when
\nyou are talking about intermediary, in Thailand or
\naccording to the law, it’s like end to end.\u00a0 Everything
\nin the middle, it’s all affected.<\/p>\n

Not only affected journalism only, there’s a lot of
\ncommunity WiFi projects in Thailand that are about to
\nstart or restart for couple of months, but once this law
\ngoes into implementation, all of that community WiFi
\nprojects that’s meant to provide communication and
\naccess to people in rural area, just has to be
\nterminated, because according to the law, they are
\nrequired to keep track, that means a lot of cost, that
\nthey have to be like support and they cannot afford
\nthat.<\/p>\n

So those community WiFi projects just basically have
\nto be terminated now, according to this law, because
\nthey cannot afford it.\u00a0 So there are many consequences,
\nnot only on the journalist side, also on many thing as
\nwell going on.<\/p>\n

>> Narish Adjwani:\u00a0 That is good news, because when the size
\nand the scope of the problem becomes bigger, it is very
\nnear to the solution.<\/p>\n

I am very confident that corporates would be
\nresponsible for addressing this issue as fast as
\npossible, as early as possible, because they are
\nintermediaries in giving access of internet to their
\nemployees.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Great to hear.<\/p>\n

I have one last question here.<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 Actually, it’s just a comment about the Philippine
\nsituation.\u00a0 Just to clarify for the record.<\/p>\n

First, as Blogie said, most of the journalists who
\nwere killed were in Mindanao and other provinces and
\nplus what actually exacerbated the news was there was
\na massacre of journalists, a mass massacre of
\njournalists who were put in a ditch.<\/p>\n

As regards the libel law and regulation, there have
\nactually been movements, to amend the law, for example,
\nthere have been — there has been a piece of legislation
\nto suggest the right to reply, which has been approved
\nand also likewise, with regards to the libel law, just
\nto point out how difficult it is in the Philippines.
\nFor example, if you won two or three cases, the libel
\nwas pushed against them, the plaintiff, the defendant,
\nwas based in Manila, the incident happened in Manila.<\/p>\n

Then the one who filed the libel law, filed it if
\nMindanao.<\/p>\n

That would take an airplane for the person to go to
\nthat court and to appear there every time.<\/p>\n

So it’s not an easy way.<\/p>\n

It has been used even before the internet.<\/p>\n

These are the complications with the libel law.<\/p>\n

In terms of efficacy, in terms of on-line, even the
\nmost influential journalist, let’s say, based in Manila,
\nnone have been shot.<\/p>\n

There have been cases as well, for example, in
\nseveral campaigns on line which have been successful and
\nhas had an effect.<\/p>\n

For example, there was this aside from the book
\nblockade, there was also the affair with the president
\nand even in politics, it has been very effective.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you for the additional details.<\/p>\n

>> Stephen Lau:\u00a0 Stephen Lau, I have a question for Ken,
\na short one.<\/p>\n

The survey in Hong Kong is a very comprehensive one.
\nI think we got very good quantitative figures and also
\nsome very good quantitative analysis.<\/p>\n

But we don’t really have much of a conclusion, maybe
\nbecause of time, even when you talk about internet
\naddiction, 140 per cent of the kids, (10 per cent of the
\nkids, you seem very neutral.\u00a0 I’m not sure if it is good
\nor bad, is the tolerable.<\/p>\n

My question is is there any conclusion, if you can
\nshare with us, what are the bad things as you can see
\nfrom this survey or let’s say, not welcome anyway, not
\nnecessarily bad, and what we intend to do about it.<\/p>\n

Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Great question.\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n

>> Ken Ngai:\u00a0 Thank you, Stephen.<\/p>\n

Good question.\u00a0 Actually, when we look at the
\ninternet addiction cases or the percentage, we try to
\ncompare with other countries.\u00a0 But sometimes it’s just
\nnot appropriate to compare directly.<\/p>\n

Because the information is not totally comparable in
\nother countries.<\/p>\n

According to Dr Wong, who actually did the analysis
\nof these studies, he tried to compare this with Seoul,
\nKorea and Taiwan.<\/p>\n

Hong Kong case, it not particularly bad.\u00a0 It’s about
\nthe same.<\/p>\n

So we think that this is a global across the region,
\nalmost the same thing, youth probably have the same
\nlevel of risk of getting internet addicted.<\/p>\n

What I would just like to mention about the survey
\ndone, the thing that actually we do is try to have some
\nsort of evidence to formulate what we can do in future.<\/p>\n

If we are concerned about youth development, we need
\nto know what they do.<\/p>\n

I think from the floor another question is asked
\na while ago, what do we prefer them to use in the
\ninternet?\u00a0 Actually, it’s not what we prefer them to do
\nin the internet, it’s actually want to know what they
\ndo.<\/p>\n

I have a few slides that I did not cover.<\/p>\n

It’s about division between boys and girl, boys
\nusually play games on line more than girls and girls
\nusually socially network with other people, things like
\nthis.<\/p>\n

They have different ways to use it.<\/p>\n

So if we know about it, we try to formulate what we
\ncan do to coach them.<\/p>\n

In our point of view, we try to make it more
\ntransparent and make youth more informed.<\/p>\n

So they know what risk they probably were exposed to
\nand what consequences they probably were exposed to.<\/p>\n

This is how we expect our internet education is
\nheading to.<\/p>\n

>> Robert Guerra:\u00a0 Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Again, I would like to thank the panellists for
\ntheir presentations and their comments and for everyone
\nfor listening and asking questions.<\/p>\n

Thank you very much.\u00a0 We’ll now, I guess, break and
\nhave coffee.\u00a0 Thank you very much<\/p>\n

(Short break)<\/p>\n

>> :\u00a0 Thank you Mr Guerra and the panellists for that
\ndiscussion.<\/p>\n

Now it is the tea and coffee break, so tea and
\ncoffee will be served on your right-hand side, outside
\nthe room.<\/p>\n

We will be back at 4 o’clock.<\/p>\n

(Short break)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Openness: Challenges and Criticalness of an Open Internet Culture ________________________________________________________________________ REAL TIME TRANSCRIPT: Openness: Challenges and Criticalness of an Open Internet Culture APrIGF 14:00-15:30, Tuesday 15 June 2010 Hong Kong DISCLAIMER: Due to the inherent difficulties in capturing a live speaker’s words, it is possible this realtime transcript may contain errors and mistranslations. An edited … <\/p>\n

Continue reading “APrIGF Roundtable – June 15th, 2010: Session 3”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"class_list":["post-288","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/288","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=288"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/288\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":551,"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/288\/revisions\/551"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/event.rigf.asia\/2010\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=288"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}